Any call?

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by mbyron

It's a travel only if dropping the ball starts a dribble. But it's not a dribble until he touches the ball again: until then, it might be a pass, which is legal. Too soon to whistle the violation.

The rule says otherwise.

4-15-1

A dribble is ball movement caused by a player in control who bats (intentionally strikes the ball with the hand(s)) or pushes the ball to the floor once OR several times.

He does not have to touch the ball a second time for it to be considered a dribble.

As an official, you have to make a judgment as to whether it was a dribble or a pass. In this situation, where he is obviously trying to avoid returning to the floor with the ball, in my judgment I have the start of a dribble. I've yet to ever see a player make a pass to a teammate by dropping the ball at his own feet.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

The rule says otherwise.

4-15-1

A dribble is ball movement caused by a player in control who bats (intentionally strikes the ball with the hand(s)) or pushes the ball to the floor once OR several times.

He does not have to touch the ball a second time for it to be considered a dribble.

As an official, you have to make a judgment as to whether it was a dribble or a pass. In this situation, where he is obviously trying to avoid returning to the floor with the ball, in my judgment I have the start of a dribble. I've yet to ever see a player make a pass to a teammate by dropping the ball at his own feet.

We've had this argument a couple of times, and I was the only one on this side of the argument.

[bigda65]

Originally Posted by just another ref

We've had this argument a couple of times, and I was the only one on this side of the argument.

So what was the verdict - 2 against the world, or is it truely the start of a dribble?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bigda65

So what was the verdict - 2 against the world, or is it truely the start of a dribble?

No verdict, but I agree with Tony. The official must judge it. Sometimes, that judgement is delayed (or changed) to see what else happens. Sometimes, it's instantaneous.

[bigda65]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

No verdict, but I agree with Tony. The official must judge it. Sometimes, that judgement is delayed (or changed) to see what else happens. Sometimes, it's instantaneous.

My judgement (for what it is worth). I did not think it was the start of a dribble, he dropped the ball to keep it from being a violation. It definately wasnt a shot, definately not a pass (only defenders around him).

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bigda65

My judgement (for what it is worth). I did not think it was the start of a dribble, he dropped the ball to keep it from being a violation. It definately wasnt a shot, definately not a pass (only defenders around him).

Your options:
Dribble, pass, shot, or fumble. It can't be anything else by rule.

[just another ref]

I would actually be a lot more inclined to wait in this case. Was the original intent of the player to dribble? No. He went up to shoot and was prevented from doing so. His only option was a quick release and hope that a nearby teammate might bail him out. In the other example recently given, a player who has used his dribble obviously forgets, starts a move to the basket by pushing the ball straight to the floor, and the ball is then contacted by a defender. Is this a violation? It definitely is to me.

[BillyMac]

When an airborne player keeps control of an attempted shot that is blocked and is unable to release the ball and returns to the floor with it, that player has not traveled; it is a held ball. If, in this situation, the shooter loses control of the ball because of the block, then this is simply a blocked shot and play continues. If, in this situation, the defender simply touches the ball, and the airborne shooter returns to the floor holding the ball, it’s a traveling violation. When an airborne player tries for goal, sees that the try will be blocked, purposely drops the ball, and picks up the ball after it hits the floor, that player has traveled by starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor.

[Rob1968]

The only way to know if it is a start of a dribble, is if it bounces from the floor back up to the ballhandler, without touching or being touched by another player.
Think of a player intercepting a pass, in his backcourt, and with a clear path to his basket, he throws, bats, pushes the ball, way out in front of him, to start the dribble. He may take several steps, before contacting the ball, again. When he does get to the ball, if he bats the ball to the floor, it's a dribble. If he catches the ball, it's the end of the dribble. If another player gets to the ball, first, it's just a pass, or an itercepted pass/turnover.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

The rule says otherwise.

4-15-1

A dribble is ball movement caused by a player in control who bats (intentionally strikes the ball with the hand(s)) or pushes the ball to the floor once OR several times.

He does not have to touch the ball a second time for it to be considered a dribble.

As an official, you have to make a judgment as to whether it was a dribble or a pass. In this situation, where he is obviously trying to avoid returning to the floor with the ball, in my judgment I have the start of a dribble. I've yet to ever see a player make a pass to a teammate by dropping the ball at his own feet.

Other than Meadowlark Lemon, of course.

[bigda65]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

The rule says otherwise.

4-15-1

A dribble is ball movement caused by a player in control who bats (intentionally strikes the ball with the hand(s)) or pushes the ball to the floor once OR several times.

He does not have to touch the ball a second time for it to be considered a dribble.

As an official, you have to make a judgment as to whether it was a dribble or a pass. In this situation, where he is obviously trying to avoid returning to the floor with the ball, in my judgment I have the start of a dribble. I've yet to ever see a player make a pass to a teammate by dropping the ball at his own feet.

BBR,
I understand your point.

In this exact case, where you stated that his intention was to not commit a violation, I dont see your point of stating it is the start of a dribble!
I honestly believe he was trying to not turn the ball over, not starting a dribble. I think he knew he couldnt do anything at that point, other than drop the ball.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by bigda65

BBR,
I understand your point.

In this exact case, where you stated that his intention was to not commit a violation, I dont see your point of stating it is the start of a dribble!
I honestly believe he was trying to not turn the ball over, not starting a dribble. I think he knew he couldnt do anything at that point, other than drop the ball.

You understand my point.

You don't see my point of stating it is the start of a dribble.

So which is it, you see my point or you don't?

[bigda65]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

You understand my point.

You don't see my point of stating it is the start of a dribble.

So which is it, you see my point or you don't?

ok you got me

I guess I should have just asked you a question.

Would you ever judge his intention to be, to keep from turning the ball over, and not judge a violation? Again, I dont believe his intention was to start a dribble, It was like he knew that that was his only option (to drop the ball) to keep from turning the ball over.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by bigda65

ok you got me

I guess I should have just asked you a question.

Would you ever judge his intention to be, to keep from turning the ball over, and not judge a violation? Again, I dont believe his intention was to start a dribble, It was like he knew that that was his only option (to drop the ball) to keep from turning the ball over.

Doubtful.

[Camron Rust]

By rule, it is a dribble the moment it leaves his hands....but we sometimes can't tell unless/until they touch the ball again.