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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 19, 2012, 11:41am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JugglingReferee View Post
He should go in and say something.

I wouldn't be surprised if at that level, they don't.
In the video, it seems the C had an eye on the play. It's amazing that he didn't take the time to talk to the T.
This kind of situation goes to the statement that mis-application of a rule will get us in much more trouble than a judgement call.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 19, 2012, 11:51am
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Not familiar with NCAA mechanics but to me I don't like the trails position there which undoubtedly lead to the kicked call.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 19, 2012, 12:01pm
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Originally Posted by constable View Post
Not familiar with NCAA mechanics but to me I don't like the trails position there which undoubtedly lead to the kicked call.
This was either a steal or a rebound and a push up the court. T got to where he could get -- and the mechanics here would be the same as in FED, and the T isn FED would be in (about) the same spot.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 19, 2012, 12:30pm
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Would the correct call have been a little easier to make if there was a "real" division line, not a "shadow" division line, running through the jump ball circle.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 19, 2012, 12:55pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo View Post
If the C official saw this play and KNEW it was not called correctly... what should he have done?
if it were me.....if I have definite knowledge and can bring specific info. to my partner, IN THIS SITUATION, i would bring it to him and hopefully he will reverse his call.

"partner - i am 110% certain that the ball NEVER made it into the frontcourt. that should not be a b/c violation."

if he doesn't change it, then i've done all i can.

the goal should be to "get the call right".
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 19, 2012, 01:10pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Would the correct call have been a little easier to make if there was a "real" division line, not a "shadow" division line, running through the jump ball circle.
How much easier does the call need to be? The ball didn't even come close to touching in the frontcourt!
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 19, 2012, 01:31pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer View Post
How much easier does the call need to be?
Just a little.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 19, 2012, 01:33pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer View Post
How much easier does the call need to be? The ball didn't even come close to touching in the frontcourt!
Sometimes I think that 3-person mechanics need to be a little more flexible to give the C more responsibility on backcourt violations in transition. That said, this one wasn't even close.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 19, 2012, 02:05pm
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There are many here (perhaps a majority) who think the C, even if they thought differently, should stay out of it. We went through a parallel situation a few months ago and many (perhaps most) said the C should not step in.

Their thinking was that the C can't know whether the T thought the player has crossed the line or simply missed the rule....as such, since it could be a question of judgment, they see that as overriding a judgement to step in and thought the C should stay away.
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Last edited by Camron Rust; Sun Feb 19, 2012 at 02:09pm.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 19, 2012, 02:09pm
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Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
There are many here (perhaps a majority) who think the C, even if they thought differently, should stay out of it. We went through a parallel situation a few months ago and many (perhaps most) said the C should not step in.

Their thinking was that the C can't know whether the T thought the player has crossed the line or simply missed the rule....as such, they see that as overriding a judgement to step in and thought the C should stay away.
if the C has DEFINITIVE knowledge, you BETTER come in and get the call right at this point in the game....if an official purposely stays away from a call like this in a game-changing moment - then you've got other issues that mean you probably shouldn't be working on that assignment.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 19, 2012, 02:24pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
There are many here (perhaps a majority) who think the C, even if they thought differently, should stay out of it. We went through a parallel situation a few months ago and many (perhaps most) said the C should not step in.

Their thinking was that the C can't know whether the T thought the player has crossed the line or simply missed the rule....as such, since it could be a question of judgment, they see that as overriding a judgement to step in and thought the C should stay away.
When it comes to rule interpretation, I truly believe any official should come in and assist (provide information) on the call. Once, you have provided the information you have done your job. IMO.

I will go as far to say these same officials will probably say:
It's ok to go without a lanyard.
It's ok not to blow your whistle to bring in substitutions.

These are my opinions and my opinions only!!!
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Last edited by truerookie; Sun Feb 19, 2012 at 04:27pm.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 19, 2012, 02:53pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
There are many here (perhaps a majority) who think the C, even if they thought differently, should stay out of it. We went through a parallel situation a few months ago and many (perhaps most) said the C should not step in.

Their thinking was that the C can't know whether the T thought the player has crossed the line or simply missed the rule....as such, since it could be a question of judgment, they see that as overriding a judgement to step in and thought the C should stay away.
I think on this play, with the miss being so egregious (at least in an official's eyes), if the C had definite information, then he has to go to his partner and provide information. I wouldn't really view this as a judgement call like say a foul...this one is pretty black and white. The dribbler has to have all three points in the frontcourt...not a lot of "judgement" in that.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 19, 2012, 03:04pm
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1. If I were the C and this was one of my games, I would go tell the Trail what I saw.

2. There are certain officials locally who would be livid if I came to them on this play because they see anything like this as a personal affront.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 20, 2012, 09:35am
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I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt...I think he is calling a carry
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