Karl Hess tosses two NC State players

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

When you say clear policy, clear to whom? These guys do not work in one conference and one conference every night. If it was so clear why was it not followed? Must not have been clear enough.

Peacce

To say it was not clear just because it wasnt followed is false logic at its worst. My understanding is that the policy is on paper and it's clear enough that Clougherty feels comfortable publicly stating, "It’s unfortunate in this instance that ACC protocol of communicating directly with the home game management was not followed, and instead, a building security officer was solicited. We will re-communicate this policy with all officials to ensure proper protocol is followed."

I know he doesnt work in the same conference every night but going through game management is pretty standard practice. And it's not like we are talking about an obscure conference that Hess works a few times a year. This is the ACC. Hess should know their policies. A lot of us don't work for the same assignors all the time but are still expected to follow the policy of where ever we are on a given night.

Like I said before, as fellow officials we are inclined to give Hess the benefit of the doubt. But I don't think blind support is a good thing. Even the best of us make mistakes, have moments we'd do over, etc. IMHO based on the limited info I have, I think Hess made a regrettable decision. Easy for me to say, I know. But that's my opinion. And what is pretty factual is that Hess did not follow stated ACC policy and protocol in how he handled the decision.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

To say it was not clear just because it wasnt followed is false logic at its worst. My understanding is that the policy is on paper and it's clear enough that Clougherty feels comfortable publicly stating, "It’s unfortunate in this instance that ACC protocol of communicating directly with the home game management was not followed, and instead, a building security officer was solicited. We will re-communicate this policy with all officials to ensure proper protocol is followed."

I am saying that when you work in a different building or conference every night it is possible that a policy can be misunderstood and possibly defaulted to what the rule says. And there is a policy on this from the NCAA, not just in the conference. And just because they say something in a statement does not mean it is entirely true or accurate. Remember they are trying to convince the public, not the staff what they were doing.

Originally Posted by VaTerp

I know he doesnt work in the same conference every night but going through game management is pretty standard practice. And it's not like we are talking about an obscure conference that Hess works a few times a year. This is the ACC. Hess should know their policies. A lot of us don't work for the same assignors all the time but are still expected to follow the policy of where ever we are on a given night.

So where do you usually go to get game management? Hmmmmmmm, maybe the table? That is where I would go unless I had knowledge of other locations of GM. And what does "This is the ACC" mean? OK the man works in the Big East too. He works in a couple of other small conferences too. What point does that make? Have you ever been to these staff meeting to know what is discussed or not discussed? I cannot even make that claim so why would I automatically believe this "policy" was talked about in detail?

Originally Posted by VaTerp

Like I said before, as fellow officials we are inclined to give Hess the benefit of the doubt. But I don't think blind support is a good thing. Even the best of us make mistakes, have moments we'd do over, etc. IMHO based on the limited info I have, I think Hess made a regrettable decision. Easy for me to say, I know. But that's my opinion. And what is pretty factual is that Hess did not follow stated ACC policy and protocol in how he handled the decision.

To me it is not about giving Hess the benefit of the doubt. I know that when I go to GM, it is usually at the table. I know an official that works at a table in the Big Ten and is the liaison for officials at one of the schools and he sits at the table. These guys were right behind the table. If this took place in the corner somewhere, OK. And since I do not know all the details or the nature of the comments, I tend to not go jumping to conclusions I did not witness personally. And the conference commissioner is not the same as the conference supervisor and their might be come conflict in the information they are talking about as well. Again I have no idea, but let us not act like GM was never contact in the matter. If you do not like that Hess stood there I get that, but let us not act like GM is somewhere special in the arena. That really is all I am saying.

Peace

[just another ref]

When the supervisor of officials for the conference says you "got it wrong" does anything else really matter?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

When the supervisor of officials for the conference says you "got it wrong" does anything else really matter?

Let me ask you a question. Did Hess get suspended? If not why?

I really do not care what he tells the public if nothing changes it must not have been seen as a big no, no as some would like to make it.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Let me ask you a question. Did Hess get suspended? If not why?

I really do not care what he tells the public if nothing changes it must not have been seen as a big no, no as some would like to make it.

Peace

Apparently it can be wrong, and not be a mistake worthy of a suspension.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Apparently it can be wrong, and not be a mistake worthy of a suspension.

I agree and I doubt that anyone really cares that much considering who Hess is and what he has accomplished. And at the end of the day, "Why did Hess do what he did?" The answer, "Because he can."

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I agree and I doubt that anyone really cares that much considering who Hess is and what he has accomplished. And at the end of the day, "Why did Hess do what he did?" The answer, "Because he can."

Peace

That is not a reason.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I agree and I doubt that anyone really cares that much considering who Hess is and what he has accomplished. And at the end of the day, "Why did Hess do what he did?" The answer, "Because he can."

Peace

So basically it has been proven that he didn't follow protocol, and your only defense has been "You weren't there", or "You haven't been in staff meetings", etc. We don't need to have been there or sat in staff meetings, we're going off of what the ACC coordinator said, which is that Hess didn't handle it properly. Then you just give the old "Because he can". I "can" go whack a coach in my game tomorrow right off the bat without them saying anything, but it doesn't mean that I'm right. Just because you can do something doesn't mean it is correct.

[dahoopref]

FYI

ACC reprimands official after ejection of Chris Corchiani, Tom Gugliotta - ESPN

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by dahoopref

FYI

ACC reprimands official after ejection of Chris Corchiani, Tom Gugliotta - ESPN

Hess started iin the ACC in 1987. Wonder if he ever Teed up those two clowns. For the first time EVER, I will root for Carolina against NC State. Certainly hope officials will ALWAYS know where game management is in that venue. Something tells me those two dolts will push the envelope.