Karl Hess tosses two NC State players

[APG]

Originally Posted by truerookie

I'm saying yes. You don't get to that level worrying about what people are saying from the stands. They don't know me or my upbring to even comment on it.

It shows their ignorance in my book.

You just smile and say thank you and keep it moving.

You don't think people at that level are going to take care of an idiot fan who is saying obscene comments (sexual/racial/ethic slurs, etc) loud and clear enough to be identified?

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

You don't think people at that level are going to take care of an idiot fan who is saying obscene comments (sexual/racial/ethic slurs, etc) loud and clear enough to be identified?

Come on, how do we know any sexual, racial, ethic slurs occurred? This is quite a reach. I belive if those things happened. Someone other than Mr. Hess would have taken care of it. I know I would have if I was in the stands witnessing this behavior.

[APG]

Originally Posted by truerookie

Come on, how do we know any sexual, racial, ethic slurs occurred? This is quite a reach. I belive if those things happened. Someone other than Mr. Hess would have taken care of it. I know I would have if I was in the stands witnessing this behavior.

I thought we were talking in a more general sense...not specific to what the Mr. Hess did...your reply to JRut, saying you would ignore racial/sexual slurs or at this level, made it seem like you believe those type of comments are routinely ignored or that you would ignore them. I got that sense from your "sticks and stones" bit...if I was wrong then I apologize.

As far as what Mr. Hess did, we don't know his side of the story, nor what he heard say. We only know what the fans told the local media what they said. The only thing we DO know is Mr. Hess should have gone through game management and had them deal with the fans.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

I thought we were talking in a more general sense...not specific to what the Mr. Hess did...your reply to JRut, saying you would ignore racial/sexual slurs or at this level, made it seem like you believe those type of comments are routinely ignored or that you would ignore them. I got that sense from your "sticks and stones" bit...if I was wrong then I apologize.

As far as what Mr. Hess did, we don't know his side of the story, nor what he heard say. We only know what the fans told the local media what they said. The only thing we DO know is Mr. Hess should have gone through game management and had them deal with the fans.

There is more than one way to handle a situation.

1. I can include the behavior in my report after the game. Silently bring attention to the situation with the University and allow them to handle it.

2. I would do this at do this at the high school level too. File a report with the state and allow them to address the behavior. (At the high school level most scorekeeper, timers work for the school district) So if i hear it they can hear it too.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by truerookie

Come on, how do we know any sexual, racial, ethic slurs occurred? This is quite a reach. I belive if those things happened. Someone other than Mr. Hess would have taken care of it. I know I would have if I was in the stands witnessing this behavior.

You do not know what they said and we cannot assume that those things were not said. I know I just posed the question because I know of situations where things were said that were of that nature. I know I would not hesitate to get rid of a fan in those cases.

I also find it funny that people have standards for ejecting players or coaches if they use a certain word, but we are supposed to just turn the other cheek in a educational environment that would not be acceptable in any other aspect of life.

Peace

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You do not know what they said and we cannot assume that those things were not said. I know I just posed the question because I know of situations where things were said that were of that nature. I know I would not hesitate to get rid of a fan in those cases.

I also find it funny that people have standards for ejecting players or coaches if they use a certain word, but we are supposed to just turn the other cheek in a educational environment that would not be acceptable in any other aspect of life.

Peace

1. How can we assume they were said?

2. It is indeed funny.

[truerookie]

Honestly, I was hoping that the incident could have been handled in a more appropriate manner.

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by truerookie

Honestly, I was hoping that the incident could have been handled in a more appropriate manner.

Appropriate by who's standard's? Yours? How would you know what was appropriate unless you knew what was said that led to the ejection? I think most (read: ALL) officials...here or anywhere would give Hess the benefit of the doubt. He's probably earned that much based on his stature, experience and reputation.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

Appropriate by who's standard's? Yours? How would you know what was appropriate unless you knew what was said that led to the ejection? I think most (read: ALL) officials...here or anywhere would give Hess the benefit of the doubt. He's probably earned that much based on his stature, experience and reputation.

Look here guy, You damn sure don't wait until the second half to address this behavior if it warrants getting tossed.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

Appropriate by who's standard's? Yours? How would you know what was appropriate unless you knew what was said that led to the ejection? I think most (read: ALL) officials...here or anywhere would give Hess the benefit of the doubt. He's probably earned that much based on his stature, experience and reputation.

Well Hess did not handle it in an entirely appropriate fashion according to the ACC. Surprised nobody has posted this yet but here is the statement from John Cloughtery:

“Under Rule 10, when circumstances warrant, an official has the authority to request home game management to eject fans when the behavior, in the officials’ judgement, is extreme or excessive. It’s unfortunate in this instance that ACC protocol of communicating directly with the home game management was not followed, and instead, a building security officer was solicited. We will re-communicate this policy with all officials to ensure proper protocol is followed.”

Obviously I wasnt there and as an official I am inclined to give Hess the benefit of the doubt. But based on the limited info I have I am of the opinion that Hess would have been better served by ignoring these two for the remaining 2:19 of the game. Or by following protocal and attempting to have a less visible conversation with game management. Also, what was a pretty one sided game without a lot of extracurriculars became very chippy after the incident including a double T.

Corchiani is claiming that both he and Gugliotta had their families with them and did not use any profanity or say anything particularly offensive. And I have a good friend who is the videographer for NC State who claims that the two were very vocal throughout the game but did not cross any lines that arent normally crossed by a good number of fans during any conference contest. Of course this is one side of the story and again I am inclined to give Hess the benefit of doubt.

But if I had to guess, I would think that given the opportunity to do it over again, Hess would like to have handled this a little differently.

[truerookie]

Now that the background has come to light. What have I learned from this interaction with individuals on this board.

1. They love their fellow officials.

2. They believe because of your (stature, experience, and reputation) it gives you a free pass to do whatever you want. Because you know others will not challenge you on your behavior.

3. They will attack you personally when you don't see things their way.

4. Once it's confirmed they are wrong, they still try to spin it to make you believe you are still wrong.

5. The discussions on the forum are enlightening and gives you a different perspective on how others view not only officiating but society as a whole. I personally may not agree with others at times. I take what they say into consideration.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by truerookie

Now that the background has come to light. What have I learned from this interaction with individuals on this board.

1. They love their fellow officials.

2. They believe because of your (stature, experience, and reputation) it gives you a free pass to do whatever you want. Because you know others will not challenge you on your behavior.

3. They will attack you personally when you don't see things their way.

4. Once it's confirmed they are wrong, they still try to spin it to make you believe you are still wrong.

5. The discussions on the forum are enlightening and gives you a different perspective on how others view not only officiating but society as a whole. I personally may not agree with others at times. I take what they say into consideration.

How big of you to take the high road.

I just can't find evidence for 2-4 in this thread.

2: No one said he got a free pass, but the benefit of the doubt until more evidence came to light. It was also noted that he can get away with things that other, newer officials with less built-up credibility can.

3. I didn't see any personal attacks against you. A few face palms, perhaps, but no personal attacks. If you took it that way, you've got thinner skin than some have accused Hess of having.

4. This is just ridiculous, but if you could point to a post in this thread where someone spins obvious evidence against their opinion, I'll be happy to silently consider it.

But apparently it makes you feel better to dump on officials to boost your ego. Just like a middle school crowd, but I'm ok with that, and I'm done.

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by truerookie

Now that the background has come to light. What have I learned from this interaction with individuals on this board.

1. They love their fellow officials.

2. They believe because of your (stature, experience, and reputation) it gives you a free pass to do whatever you want. Because you know others will not challenge you on your behavior.

3. They will attack you personally when you don't see things their way.

4. Once it's confirmed they are wrong, they still try to spin it to make you believe you are still wrong.

5. The discussions on the forum are enlightening and gives you a different perspective on how others view not only officiating but society as a whole. I personally may not agree with others at times. I take what they say into consideration.

Does this mean you'll be leaving this board???
(Where is that ignore button thingy?)