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Old Thu Feb 09, 2012, 09:41pm
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Set shot - act of shooting

Many players shoot a set shot, therefore they are not an airborne shooter.

So do you call a shooting foul if the defender crashes into the shooter immediately after they release the ball?

I think the rule is that this is not a shooting foul, but many officials call it that way.

Opinions?
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Old Thu Feb 09, 2012, 10:02pm
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Act of Shooting - Truncated

Quote:
Originally Posted by MelbRef View Post
Many players shoot a set shot, therefore they are not an airborne shooter.

So do you call a shooting foul if the defender crashes into the shooter immediately after they release the ball?

I think the rule is that this is not a shooting foul, but many officials call it that way.

Opinions?

A) I haven't seen a legitimate set shot since the 70's.

B) The Bob-Cousy-wannabe in this case only receives the protection as one in the act of shooting until the point that the shot is released, since returning to the floor is not an issue.

C) More significant would be the question, "When does the set-shooter's act of shooting begin?" In which case, any defensive foul committed between the legal beginning of the act of shooting and the release of the ball would not fit the standard "on the floor" call commonly called because leaving the floor isn't an issue. Rather, the penalty would have to fit the act of shooting criteria depending on the success of the shot if committed in that window.

Did that all sound right?
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Old Thu Feb 09, 2012, 10:10pm
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How often do you see a jump shot in a girls game?
And frequently the "shooting foul" is called just after release.

Thus the question.
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Old Thu Feb 09, 2012, 10:18pm
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Act of Shooting?
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Old Thu Feb 09, 2012, 10:26pm
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Oh, That Shot

Quote:
Originally Posted by MelbRef View Post
How often do you see a jump shot in a girls game?
And frequently the "shooting foul" is called just after release.

Thus the question.
Sorry, I construed your reference to "set shot" in the Bob Cousy sense, where the shooter never leaves the floor. Your clarification helps me now to understand that you're referring to when the player launches the shot while in the process of jumping.

In that case,disregard my point "A)".

Thanx for the clarification.

Is it correct that the classic shot seen, for instance, in girls JV ball has the player jumping and then releasing the ball while a little bit in the air? If so, she's an airborne shooter until returning to the floor. If the release is before leaving the floor, then the act of shooting ends prior to any airborne status.

Right?
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Old Fri Feb 10, 2012, 09:10am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MelbRef View Post
Many players shoot a set shot, therefore they are not an airborne shooter.

So do you call a shooting foul if the defender crashes into the shooter immediately after they release the ball?

I think the rule is that this is not a shooting foul, but many officials call it that way.

Opinions?
Agreed.

By RULE, the player is not an airborne shooter, and the foul should be a common foul.

As APPLIED, though, as long as the player is still finishing her (or, sometimes, his) shooting motion (a term undefined in the rule book), the expected call is a shooting foul.
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Old Sun Feb 12, 2012, 10:04pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Agreed.

By RULE, the player is not an airborne shooter, and the foul should be a common foul.

As APPLIED, though, as long as the player is still finishing her (or, sometimes, his) shooting motion (a term undefined in the rule book), the expected call is a shooting foul.
Interesting...."shooting motion".
Bear with me....
So as you apply it, what concludes the shooting motion?
The ball is released...the shooter follow thru...etc.
At what point does the contact change from a shooting foul to a normal personal foul?
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Old Sun Feb 12, 2012, 10:13pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MelbRef View Post
Interesting...."shooting motion".
Bear with me....
So as you apply it, what concludes the shooting motion?
The ball is released...the shooter follow thru...etc.
At what point does the contact change from a shooting foul to a normal personal foul?
The act of shooting ends when both the shot has left the hand AND the shooter has returned to the floor.

In the case of a set shot, it is not really any different. When the ball has left the hand and the shooter is on the floor, the act of shooting is over. Since they never left the floor, the act ends when the shot ends when the try is released.

There really is nothing else to protect the shooter from with regards to the act of shooting. The "follow through" means absolutely nothing and contact in that part of a "shot" has absolutely NO effect on the shot despite some shooters insisting that it does.
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Old Sun Feb 12, 2012, 10:21pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MelbRef View Post
Interesting...."shooting motion".
Bear with me....
So as you apply it, what concludes the shooting motion?
The ball is released...the shooter follow thru...etc.
At what point does the contact change from a shooting foul to a normal personal foul?
My take to your question is found in the rule 4-41-1 where it says "the act of shooting ends when the ball is clearly in flight", meaning there is absolutely no doubt in the official's mind that the ball has left the player's hand. If there is doubt, then rule the player was still in the act.

Last edited by billyu2; Sun Feb 12, 2012 at 10:24pm.
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Old Mon Feb 13, 2012, 12:05am
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Sounds about right
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Old Mon Feb 13, 2012, 03:39pm
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whatcha got?

Had one along these lines this weekend. Boys soph. A2 catches rebound (flat-footed on the ground), almost in triple-threat position, ball about shoulder height actually commendable he doesn't lower the ball much (says this old coach). Of course he's going to put it back up, but he's not doing it yet and has clearly hesitated.

Whack comes B2 on the arm ... tweet ... pause ... then up goes the flick of the shot. I had them inbounding on the endline and sold it so nobody on the floor complained (other than the HC who "helped" us much of the game). Kind of disjointed play. Partner said later he would have given the two FTAs based on the "gathering" principle. Except the ball wasn't moving or being gathered.

In retrospect, it would have been easy to just give the FTAs. Did I totally kick it or have much justification for the way it was handled?
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Old Mon Feb 13, 2012, 03:52pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amesman View Post
Had one along these lines this weekend. Boys soph. A2 catches rebound (flat-footed on the ground), almost in triple-threat position, ball about shoulder height actually commendable he doesn't lower the ball much (says this old coach). Of course he's going to put it back up, but he's not doing it yet and has clearly hesitated.

Whack comes B2 on the arm ... tweet ... pause ... then up goes the flick of the shot. I had them inbounding on the endline and sold it so nobody on the floor complained (other than the HC who "helped" us much of the game). Kind of disjointed play. Partner said later he would have given the two FTAs based on the "gathering" principle. Except the ball wasn't moving or being gathered.

In retrospect, it would have been easy to just give the FTAs. Did I totally kick it or have much justification for the way it was handled?
From the way you described it, sounds like the kid is standing like a zombie with no intent to shoot until the whistle snaps him back into reality. I believe the call could have gone either way. If I don't see an actual habitual shooting motion begin, then I would agree with your call. Wish APG had a clip for us, as its really a HTBT situation. I wouldn't sweat the fact that you and your partner don't agree. A lot of the calls we make depend on our angle on the play. Different positions observing the same play can definitely show different contact. Good topic for discussion.
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