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Old Thu Feb 02, 2012, 07:53am
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Well, It Finally Happened ...

And were we embarrassed. We gave the ball to the wrong team after a timeout.

Thank God it was only a Catholic Middle School junior varsity game, and it didn't affect the final score, but it was still embarrassing. In hindsight, this is what happened.

There were a couple of out of bounds calls in a short succession along my partner's endline, and all the players stayed down there due to good backcourt defensive pressure. Ball goes out of bounds off of Visitor, and during the ensuing dead ball, one of the coaches requests and is granted a timeout. My partner, a pretty good official, has been on this endline during this entire succession of plays, sounds his whistle to grant the request. He looks at me, expecting to "bump the timeout" to me, because I'm closest to the table, poor mechanics, I know, but "accepted" in this league, I don't know who requested the timeout, so I motion to him to report the timeout, which he does, and he then goes back to his endline.

That little hesitation in the "bump" routine, or in this case, the "non-bump" routine, lost the focus for both of us. I'm at the circle during the timeout, and he's at his endline. After the timeout, he calls out, "Visitor ball", points, and hands the ball to the Visitor for a throwin. Visitor completes the throwin, after which the ball goes out of bounds off Home.

At this point, the Home coach questions the throwin after the time out. I confer with my partner, the Home coach is correct, we screwed up, and I mean we, as in both of us, I'm taking half the blame. I apologize to the Home coach, which he seems to accept, but then he gets a little upset that we will not be giving the ball to the Home team. "Coach, I'm sorry that we blew it, but it's not a correctable error. There's nothing in the rulebook that allows us to fix this. I'm not fixing a mistake by making another mistake", and we play on, with a throwin by Visitor.

Our former local interpreter used to say, "When the ball is dead, we must be alive". He always warned us about this situation, and advised us to communicate information with our partners during timeouts, and offered us suggestions like holding the ball to one side, or the other, or in front of us, or behind us, to remind us which way the ball was going after a timeout.

Embarrassed as hell. First time on over thirty years. I offer my interpreter's statement again, for the benefit of rookies. "When the ball is dead, we must be alive". It's true. It's true. Don't let this happen to you.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Feb 02, 2012 at 02:25pm.
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Old Thu Feb 02, 2012, 08:48am
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We actually had this happen last week in a BV game after a timeout. The administering official handed the Home team the ball (The other two of us can take some blame as well. I was counting players as C though, and when I looked up he was handing it to the Home thrower). As soon as he handed it to them, he "fixed" it and took it back and gave it to the Visitors. No one said anything, so we went on.

On the way home, I mentioned that the Home coach could have been upset because there wasn't much we could do once they were handed the ball. The partner who administered the throw-in says "He can't be upset, it's a correctable error". It's the same partner who during pregame argued that slapping the backboard while trying to block a shot can be a technical foul if it shakes the rim.
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Old Thu Feb 02, 2012, 08:51am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zm1283 View Post
We actually had this happen last week in a BV game after a timeout. The administering official handed the Home team the ball (The other two of us can take some blame as well. I was counting players as C though, and when I looked up he was handing it to the Home thrower). As soon as he handed it to them, he "fixed" it and took it back and gave it to the Visitors. No one said anything, so we went on.

On the way home, I mentioned that the Home coach could have been upset because there wasn't much we could do once they were handed the ball. The partner who administered the throw-in says "He can't be upset, it's a correctable error". It's the same partner who during pregame argued that slapping the backboard while trying to block a shot can be a technical foul if it shakes the rim.

ZM1283:

Your partner was incorrect in saying that it was a Correctable Error. But you were in correct in saying that it couldn't be corrected once the ball was At the Dissposal of the Thrower. It could be corrected anytime before the Throw-in ended.

MTD, Sr.
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Old Thu Feb 02, 2012, 08:56am
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Can one call a Technical Foul if the backboard shaking is caused by a player who slaps the backboard on purpose to draw attention to him/herself?
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Old Thu Feb 02, 2012, 08:57am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
ZM1283:

Your partner was incorrect in saying that it was a Correctable Error. But you were in correct in saying that it couldn't be corrected once the ball was At the Dissposal of the Thrower. It could be corrected anytime before the Throw-in ended.

MTD, Sr.
You are right, but the more I think about it, I think the Visitors may have thrown the ball in. I actually have the game on DVD, so I'll have to watch it this weekend to see. Maybe that's why I told him we couldn't have fixed it...because it was thrown in.
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Old Thu Feb 02, 2012, 08:58am
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Originally Posted by onetime1 View Post
Can one call a Technical Foul if the backboard shaking is caused by a player who slaps the backboard on purpose to draw attention to him/herself?
Yes. If you judge the player was trying to block a shot though, it is nothing.
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Old Thu Feb 02, 2012, 09:05am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onetime1 View Post
Can one call a Technical Foul if the backboard shaking is caused by a player who slaps the backboard on purpose to draw attention to him/herself?
Quote:
Originally Posted by zm1283 View Post
Yes. If you judge the player was trying to block a shot though, it is nothing.
What does the backboard shaking have to do with this?
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Old Thu Feb 02, 2012, 09:11am
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Originally Posted by zm1283 View Post
You are right, but the more I think about it, I think the Visitors may have thrown the ball in. I actually have the game on DVD, so I'll have to watch it this weekend to see. Maybe that's why I told him we couldn't have fixed it...because it was thrown in.
In that case, you need to ask your partner when the error was recognized. It's possible to recognize the error, but not get the whistle blown until after the ball has been touched.
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Old Thu Feb 02, 2012, 09:42am
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Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
What does the backboard shaking have to do with this?
It has nothing to do with it if the player is trying to block a shot, or if he is drawing attention to himself. If it seemed that I was implying that the shaking mattered, I wasn't trying to. I was saying that slapping the backboard to draw attention to yourself is a T if it can't be ignored. Slapping the backboard simply in an attempt to block a shot is nothing.
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Old Thu Feb 02, 2012, 11:12am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
After the timeout, he calls out, "Visitor ball", points, and hands the ball to the Visitor for a throwin.
Billy, not that this is an out for you, but did V proactively go to take the throw-in after the time out, and your partner just went with it, or did the visitors take the throw-in, because your partner declared it?
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Old Thu Feb 02, 2012, 11:20am
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Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
At this point, the Home coach questions the throwin after the time out. I confer with my partner, the Home coach is correct, we screwed up, and I mean we, as in both of us, I'm taking half the blame.
I'd only take a third of the blame, the coach obviously forgot too.
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Old Thu Feb 02, 2012, 11:36am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zm1283 View Post
We actually had this happen last week in a BV game after a timeout. The administering official handed the Home team the ball (The other two of us can take some blame as well. I was counting players as C though, and when I looked up he was handing it to the Home thrower). As soon as he handed it to them, he "fixed" it and took it back and gave it to the Visitors. No one said anything, so we went on.

On the way home, I mentioned that the Home coach could have been upset because there wasn't much we could do once they were handed the ball. The partner who administered the throw-in says "He can't be upset, it's a correctable error". It's the same partner who during pregame argued that slapping the backboard while trying to block a shot can be a technical foul if it shakes the rim.
Just a reminder: it's not a correctable error but it can be fixed until the throw-in ends. Here's the closest ruling to your situation from the case book:

7.6.6 SITUATION A:

Team A is awarded a throw-in near the division line. The *administering official by mistake, puts the ball at B1's disposal. B1 completes the throw-in and Team B subsequently scores a goal.

RULING: No correction can be made for the mistake by the official after the throw-in ends
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Old Thu Feb 02, 2012, 12:00pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zm1283 View Post
You are right, but the more I think about it, I think the Visitors may have thrown the ball in.
As others have already stated, it can be corrected until the throw-in has ended. The ball may have been thrown-in, but if it hasn't been legally touched yet, it can still be corrected.
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Old Thu Feb 02, 2012, 12:41pm
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Originally Posted by JetMetFan View Post
Just a reminder: it's not a correctable error but it can be fixed until the throw-in ends. Here's the closest ruling to your situation from the case book:

7.6.6 SITUATION A:

Team A is awarded a throw-in near the division line. The *administering official by mistake, puts the ball at B1's disposal. B1 completes the throw-in and Team B subsequently scores a goal.

RULING: No correction can be made for the mistake by the official after the throw-in ends
Quote:
Originally Posted by PG_Ref View Post
As others have already stated, it can be corrected until the throw-in has ended. The ball may have been thrown-in, but if it hasn't been legally touched yet, it can still be corrected.
Thanks, even though you're echoing MTD's post above where he posts exactly the same thing. I already said I would have to look at the video and see if the throw-in ended. I'm fairly certain that it did.
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Old Thu Feb 02, 2012, 02:28pm
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"When the ball is dead, we must be alive" ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bainsey View Post
did V proactively go to take the throw-in after the time out, and your partner just went with it, or did the visitors take the throw-in, because your partner declared it?
The later. The visitors took the throw-in because my partner declared it?
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