Basket counted that did not go in

[riverfalls57]

On a radio sports talk show yesterday they were talking about a Girls game in the Chicago area in the last week or so where the Officials counted a basket late in a game that did not go in. Does anyone have any information on this?
Thanks.

[Adam]

Not on the specific case, but normally it happens on a foul. Officials look at the players after the foul occurs, and the non-calling looks up just in time to see a tip go in. Or the ball hits the net and the non-calling official sees the net move out of the corner of his eye.

[slow whistle]

Don't have all the details, but I heard that the girl shot, got fouled, and her teammate picked up the ball and threw it up "just for fun" and it went in and they scored it. Not sure of the fallout at the game, but the IHSA has the tape.

[riverfalls57]

My understanding is thats what happened here. It was a tie game and a foul was called with about 1 second left, basket was counted and then a couple of T's were issued to the coach when he protested. It sounded like an interesting situation and I wondered if anyone had heard anything about it.

[fullor30]

Discussing this situation with another board member and he brought up a great point. First of all it was clear to everyone but officials that basket was not made and has been confirmed by game tape.

His point was what kind of life lesson are you giving your kids when as a coach,you know that basket should not have counted as it never went in, or was flipped in by another player after whistle(details still sketchy).

How would you feel as a player to come away with an empty victory? What was coaches post game all about?

What a poor example for the kids

Good sportsmanship? I think not.

[Adam]

I've heard of this happening locally, from an official who reported the foul and watched the tape later. My question to him: did you get a funny look from the table?

[Toren]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I've heard of this happening locally, from an official who reported the foul and watched the tape later. My question to him: did you get a funny look from the table?

Was this me? I had this happened earlier this season, I had the foul, thought I saw the ball out of the corner of my eye not go in, but was not positive. I had a player down, so I tended to him first, closed down. He was fine. I approach my partner and my partner, gives me the old "count it" mechanic. On tape, you can see me asking him and you can see him signal count it like three times.

So I went to report and the table questioned me, "Basket went in?" I said, "I don't know but my partner says it did, so we're going with it did".

Watched the tape, partner was wrong, not sure what he was looking at.

[Jesse James]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Discussing this situation with another board member and he brought up a great point. First of all it was clear to everyone but officials that basket was not made and has been confirmed by game tape.

His point was what kind of life lesson are you giving your kids when as a coach,you know that basket should not have counted as it never went in, or was flipped in by another player after whistle(details still sketchy).

How would you feel as a player to come away with an empty victory? What was coaches post game all about?

What a poor example for the kids

Good sportsmanship? I think not.

While I understand what you're saying, I'm not going to impugn some coach for being the beneficiary of a horrible call. The honor code theory for coaches is certainly noble, but at what point does it start and stop? The missed shot clock violation in the women's college game that's chronicled on here--is the winning coach a bad sport for accepting the result of that call? A missed travel call that benefits him with five seconds left? Bad out of bounds call with a minute left?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Toren

Was this me? I had this happened earlier this season, I had the foul, thought I saw the ball out of the corner of my eye not go in, but was not positive. I had a player down, so I tended to him first, closed down. He was fine. I approach my partner and my partner, gives me the old "count it" mechanic. On tape, you can see me asking him and you can see him signal count it like three times.

So I went to report and the table questioned me, "Basket went in?" I said, "I don't know but my partner says it did, so we're going with it did".

Watched the tape, partner was wrong, not sure what he was looking at.

In your situation, I probably would have started the same. But it might have continued differently: if I detected a disagreement between partner and table, I might have gotten them together: sometimes 3 against 1 will prevail, especially when the truth is on their side.

Sometimes a partner projects confidence when he shouldn't toward someone who doesn't know; it's a different matter to lie to the table that you're "certain" it was a basket.

[RadioBlue]

Originally Posted by Jesse James

While I understand what you're saying, I'm not going to impugn some coach for being the beneficiary of a horrible call. The honor code theory for coaches is certainly noble, but at what point does it start and stop? The missed shot clock violation in the women's college game that's chronicled on here--is the winning coach a bad sport for accepting the result of that call? A missed travel call that benefits him with five seconds left? Bad out of bounds call with a minute left?

The examples you give are all judgment calls. Whether a ball goes through a hoop, or not, has nothing to do with judgment.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Jesse James

While I understand what you're saying, I'm not going to impugn some coach for being the beneficiary of a horrible call. The honor code theory for coaches is certainly noble, but at what point does it start and stop? The missed shot clock violation in the women's college game that's chronicled on here--is the winning coach a bad sport for accepting the result of that call? A missed travel call that benefits him with five seconds left? Bad out of bounds call with a minute left?

This isn't a judgement call.

[Nate1224hoops]

Originally Posted by fullor30

This isn't a judgement call.

It's nuts! I don't think the burden should be placed on the opposing coach. Not sure if we are talking 2 man or 3 man crews, but it's someone who is getting paid to officiates job to get that right. You are correct, it isn't a judgement call. That doesn't remove the blame from those who were suppose to be responsible. We are suspending (or threatening to) officials fro missing judgement calls in close games at the end....WV vs Syracuse and its the coach of the team who benefits from an officials error to speak up. NO WAY!! I'm sure Jim Boheim knew it was a goaltend but he isn't stopping the game to say...it was, he is right.

Likewise, in a gym full of load, crazy fans, if you have 300 people screaming at you that the basket didn't go in and they tell you this at the table are you really going to change your call if the opposing coach walks down and says differently. Remember, you or your partner (s) saw it go in....that's why you are in this place to begin with. You going to look at your partner and say "well, he said it didn't go in."

Bottom line: YOU CAN'T MISS IT!! If you do, carry on and hope the tape never surfaces. Don't blame the other coach...lol

[Raymond]

I had a play this season (3-man) where I was Trail when the Lead had a foul where bodies went to the floor. So he never looked up at the basket. I was pretty sure, but not 100% certain, that the original shot went in and out and that somebody then quickly tipped it in. I told the Lead to hold on before reporting and I ran to the C for confirmation, but for some reason he had no idea if the shot went in or not. Came back to Lead and told him just to report the foul only and then walk to the table with me. We then ask the scorer or timer (forget which one, but it was a guy we knew and trusted) and he told us the original shot did not go in, so we went with that.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by RadioBlue

The examples you give are all judgment calls. Whether a ball goes through a hoop, or not, has nothing to do with judgment.

Originally Posted by fullor30

This isn't a judgement call.

Of course it is a judgement call. Either the ball went in or it didn't and the official must adjudge what happened. Same thing with a player stepping on a line; he either stepped on it or he didn't yet the official must make a decision as to what he believes occurred. Just because a certain event is usually very easy to judge does not mean that it is not a judgement call.

[Duffman]

Originally Posted by Cobra

Of course it is a judgement call. Either the ball went in or it didn't and the official must adjudge what happened. Same thing with a player stepping on a line; he either stepped on it or he didn't yet the official must make a decision as to what he believes occurred. Just because a certain event is usually very easy to judge does not mean that it is not a judgement call.

I agree with this.

That's the reason hoops have nets, to aid the officials in making that judgement. At it's foundation a goal in basketball is no different than a goal in hockey or basketball. It might be easier to judge, but it's still a judgement.