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Old Sun Jan 29, 2012, 08:51am
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L in Three-Person "Reaching Across the Lane"???

More and more, while both doing games and observing/critiquing and taking video of crews, I'm noticing that the L in three-man has the frequent tendency to "reach across the lane" to call illegal contact fouls on the players defending shooters who come into the lane opposite L's area.

I can understand the good look the L gets on block/charge calls, since, though the drive may have originated in C's area, L is likely to have had the best view of a defender setting up in LGP.

However, I'm not convinced L has the best look at illegal contact fouls when involving a shooter advancing toward and encountering a defender in the other side of the lane. Yet it's become common for L to take this call, almost as if L is importing two-person coverage area principles into three-person.

The accuracy of the calls/no calls that are occurring when the L is the one calling "across the lane" instead of C on these sorts of plays is what I am calling into question.

Do you sense the same tendency? Is this a valid concern? Do you pregame this situation? Should I take up volleyball instead?

Your seasoned comments and insights are appreciated.
(I'm waiting to ingest your feedback before including it on the agenda of an upcoming rules meeting)
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Last edited by Freddy; Sun Jan 29, 2012 at 08:54am.
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Old Sun Jan 29, 2012, 09:26am
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There are situations where the L has a better look than the C. There are situations where the C has a better look than the L. Both involve having the proper angle versus getting straight lined. I don't have a real problem with it as long as the play is in the lane AND he's not guessing/making the call while straight lined.

I have a greater problem with the L reaching across and making a call outside the lane in front of the C. I think that's especially a problem with block/charge. It's been my experience that most of those calls end up being wrong.
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Old Sun Jan 29, 2012, 10:01am
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Maybe L was late to rotate, but has a good look. Maybe L pinches the paint on the drive, to get a good look. Maybe the contact was on the arm in front by a help defender and the C would be straightlined.
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Old Sun Jan 29, 2012, 12:57pm
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I tend to agree w/Freddy

Maybe the L was working wide. Almost standing at the 3-pt line/end line intersection and called the play across the lane. It happened twice in my game by the same official. Lucky for me I was the T during both of the calls. Did I say anything to him after the game? Absolutely not! It was not going to help and he is not going to change. By the way.... he never rotates!
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Old Sun Jan 29, 2012, 01:31pm
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Get in position.
Get the open look.
Don't guess.
When the lead is "reaching across the lane," it is hard for the lead to be in position, have the open look and not guess.
The lead needs to work hard to get the crew in the right position to ref the plays. If this is a fast break, then trust the C to make the right call. If not, look at why the lead did not rotate. And if the reason is because of post play on the lead's side, why would the lead look at the shooter across the lane. If the lead feels the need to officiate on that play, then rotate.
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Old Sun Jan 29, 2012, 04:00pm
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We pregame how we want to divide the lane if we even want to at all. With some crews L owns the paint otherwise we go 50/50. C can have a whistle in the paint, but it is L's primary.
However we do say that L NEEDS to get over so we can get it right
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Old Sun Jan 29, 2012, 04:39pm
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As a general rule no it is not the best look on most plays. But there are times when a play is coming to the basket the L has a great look at things the C might get screened off of. If it is a common occurance then it can be a problem. But there are situations where this is OK and sometimes the L can see other defenders coming over to defend the basket better.

I have learned over the years to stop with the absolutes. I do not make many calls across the lane and usually move to get there, but I might look across when my line is threatened and see a bump out of bounds, but that is not common I would not be coming over. I just think we need to get in position to make calls and sometimes it is about angles, not specific positions.

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Old Sun Jan 29, 2012, 04:54pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
sometimes it is about angles, not specific positions.
+1 Most of the time, even.
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Old Sun Jan 29, 2012, 05:07pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
As a general rule no it is not the best look on most plays. But there are times when a play is coming to the basket the L has a great look at things the C might get screened off of. If it is a common occurance then it can be a problem. But there are situations where this is OK and sometimes the L can see other defenders coming over to defend the basket better.

I have learned over the years to stop with the absolutes. I do not make many calls across the lane and usually move to get there, but I might look across when my line is threatened and see a bump out of bounds, but that is not common I would not be coming over. I just think we need to get in position to make calls and sometimes it is about angles, not specific positions.

Peace
I'm not one who reaches across often, but that's mainly because I'm an active L who doesn't hesitate to rotate frequently, sometimes a few times per possession.

If I do get in a position where I can't get over in time, I'll pinch the paint and recognize that the angle I get might be the only one that picks something up. I'm not going to pass on an obvious foul just cause it's a step outside the lane. That said, if it's a 50/50 thing (or even a 75/25 thing), I'll let my C decide for himself if we need a whistle.

Regardless, I'm not going to apologize for making a call a step out of the lane across the lane. And I'm not going to be pissed if my partner comes and gets that when I'm the C, either. We're a team out there.

Last night we had a play where a player drove baseline in front of the L and he no-called it. From my view as the C, if it was anything it was a block as the defender closed ground while the shooter was airborne (and as I was watch players position themselves for rebounds, I really didn't have a great look). The L no called it, (and it was probably the proper call in the situation based on what I did see and what the T caught in his periphery). The home coach went a bit crazy wanting a PC foul and when he came onto the court, the third official (the T) whacked him. I was the only one "not involved" so I went right over to the bench and absorbed a lot of stuff while sitting the coach down. He never argued the technical, but rather kept saying that we needed to "help the young son-of-a-gun out" there. But while I had a look at the play and saw a possible block, I had a L right in front of that with the perfect look -- so that's what I mean. It's not an elephant and not a situation where I may have had a better look, so there's no way I'm putting air in my whistle there.

Last edited by Rich; Sun Jan 29, 2012 at 05:13pm.
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Old Sun Jan 29, 2012, 05:17pm
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Old Tue Jan 31, 2012, 08:55am
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The Jury's In on This . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
. . . the L in three-man has the frequent tendency to "reach across the lane" to call illegal contact fouls on the players defending shooters who come into the lane opposite L's area.
Thanks for your feedback on this.
I've invested the past week or so studying this issue, reviewing tape, observing games, and I've come to the same conclusion many of you mentioned.
#1 - The best would be if L had time and took the initiative to rotate to get a good angle to be able to "get the slot" and adequately officiate this play
#2 - When the drive from the top takes place so quickly that L doesn't have time to rotate, it's best if C close down and take this call, being careful that he doesn't get straightlined himself.
#3 - Having analyzed dozens of plays like this, the accuracy rate is pitifully low when L makes this call across the lane in C's area. Block/charge situations are a little different because, while C has been following the dribbler in his area from the top of the lane and may not have the best look at the defender low in the lane setting up to take a charge, the observant R can detect this more readily in order to make an accurate judgment on block/charge.
#4 - Some C's have to break the mindset that they can be lazy while "in the saddle, because, after all, the ball's not in my area". C has got to be diligent to close down on this quick play and officiate the contact that may/may not occur low in the lane in his area.
#5 - L's who don't "pinch the paint" when the ball goes to the middle out top of the lane put themselves at a disadvantage because they can't possibly effect a timely rotation from a wider position to officiate this play well from a new L position with the slot in front of them.

Continued feedback is always appreciated, but I think the comments of many and the actual game scenerios I've seen and studied this week pretty much lead to the conclusion of the majority here.

Thanx again.
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Old Tue Jan 31, 2012, 09:06am
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If the ball has entered the post/block area on the weak side, my nly question is why the L hadn't rotated? Unless the ball came in from a unusual route, the L should've already pinched down when the ball went weak side high and be ready to rotate if it came down lower than the foul line.
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Old Tue Jan 31, 2012, 09:12am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
...
#5 - L's who don't "pinch the paint" when the ball goes to the middle out top of the lane put themselves at a disadvantage because they can't possibly effect a timely rotation from a wider position to officiate this play well from a new L position with the slot in front of them.
...
I hate it when I work with a partner who doesn't pinch the paint when the ball is weakside. He's no help if there is a quick drive to the hole.
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Old Tue Jan 31, 2012, 11:52am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by berserkBBK View Post
We pregame how we want to divide the lane if we even want to at all. With some crews L owns the paint otherwise we go 50/50. C can have a whistle in the paint, but it is L's primary.
However we do say that L NEEDS to get over so we can get it right

I applaud the fact that you pregame this coverage, but wouldn't we all be better off if crews used the mechanics manual rather than doing their own thing?

I work very hard not to call across the paint. About the only time I do go is if there is a secondary defender sliding over from my area, in which case I'lll have a better look at LGP for that player than my C. If I'm calling anything on the other side of the lane, I'm definitely going to be pinched. I don't have the numbers, but I'm told that there was a study the NCAA did a few years ago that when the L goes across, they are wrong much more often. To me, the problem with going across the paint, or going out of your area to make a call is that more often than not, you're not seeing the entire play, which means you're making an educated guess. Just my $.02 of course.
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Old Tue Jan 31, 2012, 12:49pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignats75 View Post
If the ball has entered the post/block area on the weak side, my nly question is why the L hadn't rotated? Unless the ball came in from a unusual route, the L should've already pinched down when the ball went weak side high and be ready to rotate if it came down lower than the foul line.
Exactly. Once the ball goes away from my side of the court as the L, I'm closed down and looking for an opportunity to rotate over. It's the official who stays wide angle that is screwed because there's no time to close down and then get across, so most times that official just stays on the wrong side of the court.
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