BYU/St. Mary's

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I'm with Rut here -- BYU has been hypocritical and selective on applying penalties for those beliefs and it's the institution I'm mocking, not the beliefs. I'm happy to let people have their beliefs and their rules, but then those rules should be applied across the board, not when they want to use them as an excuse to get rid of an "undesirable" player.

What in the world are you talking about? Davies wasn't an "undesirable" player. He was a significant part of the BYU defense last year. If BYU wanted to do what was best for the team, they would have found a way to skirt the issue.

The fact is that the rule of receiving a suspension for having sex with your girlfriend was applied the same as it is "across the board" in that case. I know plenty of people who have gone to BYU, and it's SOP to get at least a suspension for doing what Davies did.

So I'm not really sure where I see the inconsistency...

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by fiasco

What in the world are you talking about? Davies wasn't an "undesirable" player. He was a significant part of the BYU defense last year. If BYU wanted to do what was best for the team, they would have found a way to skirt the issue.

The fact is that the rule of receiving a suspension for having sex with your girlfriend was applied the same as it is "across the board" in that case. I know plenty of people who have gone to BYU, and it's SOP to get at least a suspension for doing what Davies did.

So I'm not really sure where I see the inconsistency...

You obviously did not see the ESPN Story on this topic as they did question the validity of the policy and the consistency of the policy. They even had claims of players not being penalized that were likely violating that policy. It was a little more than hearsay, there were people that were found out to have violated the policy and not suspended. I was not there or have no idea personally what was done or not done, but this was a little more than Deadspin making these claims.

Peace

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You obviously did not see the ESPN Story on this topic as they did question the validity of the policy and the consistency of the policy. They even had claims of players not being penalized that were likely violating that policy. It was a little more than hearsay, there were people that were found out to have violated the policy and not suspended. I was not there or have no idea personally what was done or not done, but this was a little more than Deadspin making these claims.

Peace

I did see the piece. I still take issue with any sort of "statistics" claiming that black athletes are suspended at a higher rate for honor code violations than white athletes.

I take issue with it because there's no way to even have that information. BYU doesn't release that kind of information, so they're going off a bunch of interviews with former players. Hardly seems scientific at all. And so it really is all hearsay, which is fine. Let's just not pretend that the opinions being formed in this thread about BYU's Honor Code practices are somehow based on fact. They're not. They're based on innuendo.

One of the biggest issues here is that Brandon Davies confessed what he had done to his coach and, IIRC, his ecclesiastical leader. Of course there are going to be a lot of students (white or not, athlete or not) who get away with stuff, because they don't do what Davies had the conviction to do -- admit that he had broken the Honor Code to his leader. Making an apples-to-apples comparison of the Davies case and those kinds of people who intentionally break the rules and try to get away with it and saying there's some sort of injustice going on is just plain stupid.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by fiasco

I did see the piece. I still take issue with any sort of "statistics" claiming that black athletes are suspended at a higher rate for honor code violations than white athletes.

I take issue with it because there's no way to even have that information. BYU doesn't release that kind of information, so they're going off a bunch of interviews with former players. Hardly seems scientific at all. And so it really is all hearsay, which is fine. Let's just not pretend that the opinions being formed in this thread about BYU's Honor Code practices are somehow based on fact. They're not. They're based on innuendo.

I did not make the claim about this policy really, I said that if they are going to be worried about something they should worry about suspending kids for actions with the honor code, not a fan and their actions. That was a joke and just like people make jokes about other religious institutions for their lack of consistency or hypocrisy they show as well. As an official usually the most profane or out of control individuals I see come from the religious schools. So yes their policies can and will be questioned. That being said I think there was a little more to the ESPN story than hearsay. Just like a source gives a reporter some information as to some data that they have access to. The story was a little more than someone giving what they thought.

Originally Posted by fiasco

One of the biggest issues here is that Brandon Davies confessed what he had done to his coach and, IIRC, his ecclesiastical leader. Of course there are going to be a lot of students (white or not, athlete or not) who get away with stuff, because they don't do what Davies had the conviction to do -- admit that he had broken the Honor Code to his leader. Making an apples-to-apples comparison of the Davies case and those kinds of people who intentionally break the rules and try to get away with it and saying there's some sort of injustice going on is just plain stupid.

Yes he did confess, but there was also a part of the report that he was accused of doing this based on some other information. Also it was said that there were people trying to "catch" students in violation and having fellow students tell on each other. He did confess, but it was said he was hounded to find a violation. And it does appear that there are some reports they do not apply the rule evenly. I do not claim to know, but if any of that is true then they have the right to be criticized for their policy and application of that policy. Just like any other issue would be up for scrutiny at any other institution, public or private.

Peace

[Adam]

Apparently they deserve to be criticized even if any of it might be true.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

That being said I think there was a little more to the ESPN story than hearsay.

Like what?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Like what?

There were documents referenced as well as school officials that wished not to be identified. If you watch Outside the Lines often, this is typical of how investigated stories are conducted with people on the inside making claims of information they are privy to a policy or information. Not everyone is going to give a face to face interview and let it be known they have a opposition to a policy or its application. It has been awhile so maybe I can find some information to highlight this, but the story from Deadspin was not the only place where this was claimed about their policy. Now you do not have to accept this, but like many institutions there are things they might be inconsistent with in application and probably have people around that point these things out to the administration. Just because you do not agree with it does not make it untrue either.

Peace