Faking being fouled ...

[ref3808]

Boys JV game yesterday played on a less than regulation size court. Fairly big bodies, tight space. Early in the game A1 attempts to draw a charge but there's little if any contact before he goes to the floor. A bit later A2 does the same. At halftime I have a brief conversation with the coach about his players flopping and he's very dismissive. "I don't know what you're talking about". I thought I'd give him the chance to clean it up. It was obvious to me that they were coached to go down and try to draw a charge. Also talked to my partner about it so he knew the situation.

Second half, about two min in, A1 goes to the floor again on no contact to try and draw the call. I whistle the T. Coach is clearly displeased, but I'd seen enough.

Should I have tried to have that conversation with the coach or just applied the rule on the first flop? Have you warned first for this or gone right to the T?

Did I handle it well or should I have done something differently?

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by ref3808

Boys JV game yesterday played on a less than regulation size court. Fairly big bodies, tight space. Early in the game A1 attempts to draw a charge but there's little if any contact before he goes to the floor. A bit later A2 does the same. At halftime I have a brief conversation with the coach about his players flopping and he's very dismissive. "I don't know what you're talking about". I thought I'd give him the chance to clean it up. It was obvious to me that they were coached to go down and try to draw a charge. Also talked to my partner about it so he knew the situation.

Second half, about two min in, A1 goes to the floor again on no contact to try and draw the call. I whistle the T. Coach is clearly displeased, but I'd seen enough.

Should I have tried to have that conversation with the coach or just applied the rule on the first flop? Have you warned first for this or gone right to the T?

Did I handle it well or should I have done something differently?

While awaiting the responses which will surely be forthcoming, you might want to do a forum search on the topic. There was some good, healthy discussion on this exact topic several times over the past three or four years which helped me understand this situation more fully.
That said, let the floodgates of insights be opened . . .

[Adam]

I probably would have done it the same way.

The only caveat I'd add (as someone who wasn't there) is that you have to be sure he's faking and not anticipating. A player can legally fall if he's anticipating imminent contact. It's a fine line sometimes.

That said, I wouldn't go straight to the T even if I was sure. Warn them (you did), then call it.

[ref3808]

No doubt at all in my mind that this wasn't anticipatory, strictly trying to draw a call that wasn't there to be made.

[ref3808]

And the other interesting comment from the coach ... "you guys should be rewarding kids who try to draw the call". Really coach?

[Adam]

Wow, coaches can be such tools.

This week, 8G girls, the T that should have been.

Midway through first quarter, V1 thinks she got fouled and delays playing defense long enough to stop and yell that she got held. There was a dead ball right afterwards that gave me a chance to talk to her. Her coach had just called her over, so I walked over and told her "I can't have you behaving like that."

Coach, "Well, they are hand checking and reaching."

I doubt I'll warn if I have that team again.

[icallfouls]

OK, here's one way you might want to consider before going to the TF. I do have a question.

Are you saying that every time players did this there was no contact, or is that just the specific play?

Without being there to see it, this is the kind of play I think you are describing. Player was anticipating contact by the offense and started to brace for it, then starts falling down. Offense pulls up without contact, shoots and scores. Perhaps the plays are similar?

At any rate, no call. Kid took himself out of the play and gave up points.

If you don't like the flopping action (no to and thru contact), then call a block. Go to a captain if the coach wont help, and state something along the lines of, "tell your guys to stand in and earn the call, next time there is a flop, we'll have a block."

[Adam]

Some like the block call here, I don't like it; mainly because it's completely contrary to the rule. A foul with no contact, or a block foul by a defender who is simply falling backwards (which is allowed by rule).

If you're sure enough to break the rules to call the block, why not use the rules we have?

Just my opinion, and I know that in some areas this is the expected call. I just can't do it.

[billyu2]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Some like the block call here, I don't like it; mainly because it's completely contrary to the rule. A foul with no contact, or a block foul by a defender who is simply falling backwards (which is allowed by rule).

If you're sure enough to break the rules to call the block, why not use the rules we have?

Just my opinion, and I know that in some areas this is the expected call. I just can't do it.

Well said, Snaq. I agree.

[Loudwhistle2]

I warn first, never had to make that call yet.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Some like the block call here, I don't like it

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Wow, coaches can be such tools.

+2

I'm with ya Snaqs!

[Welpe]

I worked a game today where the defender got
Position but then fell away early. I saw it perfectly from lead and had no call because there was no contact. My parter whistles it from the back court (we were in transition) as a block.

His reason was that we need to protect the shooter. I was not happy but he was the veteran varsity official so I kept my mouth shut.

[Adam]

Wow, I hate it when that happens.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

OK, here's one way you might want to consider before going to the TF. I do have a question.

Are you saying that every time players did this there was no contact, or is that just the specific play?

Without being there to see it, this is the kind of play I think you are describing. Player was anticipating contact by the offense and started to brace for it, then starts falling down. Offense pulls up without contact, shoots and scores. Perhaps the plays are similar?

At any rate, no call. Kid took himself out of the play and gave up points.

If you don't like the flopping action (no to and thru contact), then call a block. Go to a captain if the coach wont help, and state something along the lines of, "tell your guys to stand in and earn the call, next time there is a flop, we'll have a block."

How do you call a block when there's no contact?

The rule is in place for a reason. What you suggest is making up your own rules.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Some like the block call here, I don't like it; mainly because it's completely contrary to the rule. ....

If you're sure enough to break the rules to call the block, why not use the rules we have?

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

How do you call a block when there's no contact?

Fully agree with everything above. If someone is flopping, I can certainly see speaking with them once. (I've done that.) After that, call the T. Flopping is unsportsmanlike (and a little insulting), period. Calling a block on a flop is avoiding the issue altogether, and I don't see it as much of a deterrent.

I'm not sure I'd even speak with the coach about it, for reasons the OP mentioned. Any coach with flopping players is only going to be indignant or falsely agreeable if you bring it up. Just deal with the source, I say, and be 100% sure that the player is flopping. Being quite certain isn't enough.