faking to first

[joyce]

In our (Pony) league, the umpires allow right handed pitchers to "fake" to first base from the stretch position. Their rationale is that the pitcher has removed his foot from the rubber as he turns to first, and that he is therefore no longer in contact with the rubber. Thus, he can "fake". I guess I'm wondering why if this IS actually true, in 40 years of watching baseball I've never seen a major leaguer "fake" a first base pickoff. Is a righty's pickoff to first considered a "jump turn" and therefore to be considered as actually being in contact with the rubber for the purpose of the pickoff/balk rule?

[bluezebra]

Their "rationale" is irrational. The pitcher MUST step back off the pitcher's plate with the non-pivot foot to feint to 1B. They're just too lazy, don't know the rule, don't care, or all of the above.

[jicecone]

Originally posted by joyce
In our (Pony) league, the umpires allow right handed pitchers to "fake" to first base from the stretch position. Their rationale is that the pitcher has removed his foot from the rubber as he turns to first, and that he is therefore no longer in contact with the rubber. Thus, he can "fake". I guess I'm wondering why if this IS actually true, in 40 years of watching baseball I've never seen a major leaguer "fake" a first base pickoff. Is a righty's pickoff to first considered a "jump turn" and therefore to be considered as actually being in contact with the rubber for the purpose of the pickoff/balk rule?

It is obvious that the umpires working your Pony league have not yet open the rule book. Are left-handers prohibited from the same move?

You might want to speak to the league because the guys do not have a clue.

[ozzy6900]

Originally posted by joyce
In our (Pony) league, the umpires allow right handed pitchers to "fake" to first base from the stretch position. Their rationale is that the pitcher has removed his foot from the rubber as he turns to first, and that he is therefore no longer in contact with the rubber. Thus, he can "fake". I guess I'm wondering why if this IS actually true, in 40 years of watching baseball I've never seen a major leaguer "fake" a first base pickoff. Is a righty's pickoff to first considered a "jump turn" and therefore to be considered as actually being in contact with the rubber for the purpose of the pickoff/balk rule?

I don't believe what I am reading!!!!!

Okay, a pitcher may not fake to 1st. Again, a pitcher may not fake to 1st. If he steps off the rubber with his pivot foot, he is no longer a pitcher, he is an infielder. An infielder may do anything that he wants.

A jump turn is a different animal altogether. The pitcher (to keep it simple) jumps into the air with both feet, spins toward 1st, lands with both feet and throws. If done correctly, he satisfies the "distance and direction" rule also.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by ozzy6900
Okay, a pitcher may not fake to 1st. Again, a pitcher may not fake to 1st. If he steps off the rubber with his pivot foot, he is no longer a pitcher, he is an infielder. An infielder may do anything that he wants.

Anything? Really? How about making a motion associated with the pitch while not in contact with the rubber? How about being on or astride the pitching plate without the ball? How about pitching the ball while not in contact with the plate? How about going to the mouth while on the dirt (local rules and enforcement may vary)?

[LDUB]

Originally posted by bluezebra
Their "rationale" is irrational. The pitcher MUST step back off the pitcher's plate with the non-pivot foot to feint to 1B. They're just too lazy, don't know the rule, don't care, or all of the above.

Mabye I am reading the first post wrong, but didn't the pitcher step off? He is in the stretch, then he steps back, and feints to first. If he steps off, then it looks fine to me.

[jicecone]

Originally posted by LDUB

Mabye I am reading the first post wrong, but didn't the pitcher step off? He is in the stretch, then he steps back, and feints to first. If he steps off, then it looks fine to me.

It says nothing at all about stepping BACK, which is acceptable. The implication here was that by turning to your left and pushing off the plate to throw to first, the pitcher is stepping off and can therefore fake to first. The rules state that in order to step off, the pitcher MUST step directly behind the plate, (step back).

Therefore, if one was to read the pitching rule(and I don't mean you), they could easily understand this.

Rule 8.01e- "If a pitcher removes his pivot foot from contact with the pitcher's plate by stepping backward with that foot, he thereby becomes an infielder and....." see also 8.01b, The Set Position.

[David B]

Boy is this poor league going to be in trouble come tournament time.

But, "blue" our umpires said it was okay.

And then the coach tells his players "these umpires don't know what they are talking about etc.,"

Thanks
David

[joyce]

Thanks for the info. From what I gather, if the pitcher first steps directly BACK with the pivot foot, he can then fake to first. This is NOT what I am seeing in our league. In our league, the pitcher lifts the pivot foot, plants it basically on the SIDE or "sort-of" IN FRONT and ON THE SIDE of the rubber (NOT making contact), as he turns his body to first, strides with the non-pivot foot, and FAKES. So to test my theory that a righty really CAN'T throw a firstbase pickoff WITHOUT losing contact with the rubber, I went down to the field and tried to throw a pickoff to first from the stretch WITHOUT losing contact between my pivot foot and the rubber, and I think I hurt my pancreas! Next I watched the Red Sox game. While that was not as painful as my pancreas injury, I am pretty sure I saw a righty pickoff move where the pitcher did exactly what I described above, in fact losing contact between his pivot foot and the rubber. In fact, it looked pretty much like a standard pickoff move to me. Can you tell I used to be an outfielder? HELP!!!!

[nine01c]

Originally posted by joyce
Next I watched the Red Sox game. While that was not as painful as my pancreas injury, I am pretty sure I saw a righty pickoff move where the pitcher did exactly what I described above, in fact losing contact between his pivot foot and the rubber. In fact, it looked pretty much like a standard pickoff move to me. Can you tell I used to be an outfielder? HELP!!!!

Did he actually throw the ball to 1B? If so, it's OK, but he cannot fake without stepping off (disengaging properly).

[DG]

If your pivot foot loses contact with the rubber while your are stepping and throwing to 1B that's ok, but you can't then stop the throw (ie fient). Many pitchers also lose contact with the rubber before releasing the ball from their hand on a pitch. It's ok.