contact on the "off" hand/arm - what's the call?

[MrPlywood]

Can someone enlighten me concerning contact on the "off" hand/arm while shooting? Or dribbling for that matter. I cannot get a call in my league or for sure not during my non-ref'd games. I'm a smaller guy, and everyone goes for the block when I'm driving. I'm fast enough to usually avoid getting hit on the shooting arm, but I get plenty of contact on the off-hand/arm which, since I'm a smaller player, can and does throw me off-balance and influence my shot. I consider it a foul, but I rarely win that battle unless I'm taken to the floor.

Thanks in advance...

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by MrPlywood

Can someone enlighten me concerning contact on the "off" hand/arm while shooting? Or dribbling for that matter. I cannot get a call in my league or for sure not during my non-ref'd games. I'm a smaller guy, and everyone goes for the block when I'm driving. I'm fast enough to usually avoid getting hit on the shooting arm, but I get plenty of contact on the off-hand/arm which, since I'm a smaller player, can and does throw me off-balance and influence my shot. I consider it a foul, but I rarely win that battle unless I'm taken to the floor.

Thanks in advance...

I don't know that anything we respond with here on this forum will solve the problem you seem to be having. Obviously, if it as you state, it is a foul. But not sure where you're gonna go with that from there.
Maybe try yelling real loud at the refs. Let us know how it works out for you.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by MrPlywood

Can someone enlighten me concerning contact on the "off" hand/arm while shooting? Or dribbling for that matter. I cannot get a call in my league or for sure not during my non-ref'd games. I'm a smaller guy, and everyone goes for the block when I'm driving. I'm fast enough to usually avoid getting hit on the shooting arm, but I get plenty of contact on the off-hand/arm which, since I'm a smaller player, can and does throw me off-balance and influence my shot. I consider it a foul, but I rarely win that battle unless I'm taken to the floor.

Thanks in advance...

All contact is not a foul. It is that simple. And unless the contact put someone at a disadvantage, it is probably not going to be called. I really have no idea what you being smaller has to do with any of this. You being smaller might be more reason you are not getting calls when guys are bigger are making contact with you. And what you consider is a foul does not make it so either. It is nice to have an opinion, but the only opinion that matters in these cases are the officials that are watching the plays in question. If they feel it is a foul they will call it. If they feel it is not a foul, they won’t.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by MrPlywood

Can someone enlighten me concerning contact on the "off" hand/arm while shooting? Or dribbling for that matter. I cannot get a call in my league or for sure not during my non-ref'd games. I'm a smaller guy, and everyone goes for the block when I'm driving. I'm fast enough to usually avoid getting hit on the shooting arm, but I get plenty of contact on the off-hand/arm which, since I'm a smaller player, can and does throw me off-balance and influence my shot. I consider it a foul, but I rarely win that battle unless I'm taken to the floor.

Thanks in advance...

I still play a lot of pickup ball. Most guys I play with wouldn't want that foul given to them and wouldn't call it themselves in a pickup game. We are expected to play through that contact.

In adult rec leagues I allow a lot more contact than I would in a high school or college game.

[MrPlywood]

"Maybe try yelling real loud at the refs. Let us know how it works out for you."

My question was sincere, just trying to find out the mindset of someone who actually calls a game. No need to be pithy.

Trust me, I play through a lot and don't whine. I'm a converted wrestler so I can bang if I need to.

I try to adjust my to game to how the refs are calling it or to the "local" rules. The contact I'm describing does put me at a disadvantage, and I was just curious how trained refs rationalized the decision to call it or not –*what the line is. I see the inconsistency all the time in NCAA games especially, when a guy can get hammered with no call, then the next trip down the floor a mild reach in gets a whistle.

Thx for the feedback.

[canuckrefguy]

Originally Posted by Freddy

I don't know that anything we respond with here on this forum will solve the problem you seem to be having. Obviously, if it as you state, it is a foul. But not sure where you're gonna go with that from there.
Maybe try yelling real loud at the refs. Let us know how it works out for you.

Now that's what I call being "approachable". Well done.

[APG]

I will say this, the quality of officials you may get for your league games may not be top quality and thus they may not be as able to discern incidental contact versus illegal contact. And in a pick-up game, only the most obvious of fouls is going to be respected...try calling a handcheck, and they're gonna call that weak and/or you're going to be shooting a shot to see who gets ball.

As far as contact on the off hand, if it's in contact with the ball, that's going to be nothing (as I'm sure you've heard the axiom "hand is part of the ball"). If it's on the off arm, it's something I'd have to see...just thinking out loud, slight contact to the off arm isn't going to affect a shot as much as slight contact to the shooting hand.

[MrPlywood]

For what it's worth, perhaps I didn't phrase the initial question correctly. Let's leave me out of it. How about this: Say you see contact on the shooting arm that meets your definition of a foul, and you blow the whistle. On a different play, you see the same contact on the off arm, do you call it? It's clear to me that some see it differently simply because it's not the shooting arm.

@canuckrefguy - I learned to play in NC, where a lot of the bball is finesse oriented. I now live in Canada, home of hockey players who play basketball. It's a rougher game all around. Handchecking and hard fouls are not only common, they're practically encouraged.

[just another ref]

It's a straight judgment call. Did the contact hinder the shooter on the shot or not? Obviously it would take less contact on the shooting arm to be considered a hindrance. Also, it would depend on what kind of shot was taken. Where was the "off" hand?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by MrPlywood

.. I see the inconsistency all the time in NCAA games especially, when a guy can get hammered with no call, then the next trip down the floor a mild reach in gets a whistle.Thx for the feedback.

I doubt your description is accurate but I will say that it is a point of emphasis in the NCAA to keep your hands off the ball-handler.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by MrPlywood

I see the inconsistency all the time in NCAA games especially, when a guy can get hammered with no call, then the next trip down the floor a mild reach in gets a whistle.

I doubt you're seeing this accurately. Likely, when the guy gets hammered with no call, there are other reasons. Namely, the nail is running into the hammer.

[tref]

Originally Posted by MrPlywood

I try to adjust my to game to how the refs are calling it or to the "local" rules.

Thats a wise move!

Perhaps you have some film you could post, seeing is believing. As others have stated mere contact doesnt make it a foul.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by MrPlywood

For what it's worth, perhaps I didn't phrase the initial question correctly. Let's leave me out of it. How about this: Say you see contact on the shooting arm that meets your definition of a foul, and you blow the whistle. On a different play, you see the same contact on the off arm, do you call it? It's clear to me that some see it differently simply because it's not the shooting arm.

All contact is not foul. And without tape none of us can really answer. And even thing we might not have the angle. A lot of times contact on shooters are caused by the shooter. Shooters are not always contacted by defender's illegally.

Peace