"That's a foul!"

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Wow, did you read the sentence?

Yep...did you read it with the understanding that it's from a HS kid who is getting thumped in a game? He's whining...get over it.

[Rich]

It wouldn't get more than a little chuckle from me. And I'm certainly not shy about serving tea when necessary.

[Adam]

At most, it's a request.

[mbyron]

I wouldn't T up the kid till after I'd told the coach to control his bench. That calls the coach's attention to the misbehavior and affords him the opportunity to deal with it.

Doesn't work in every case: sometimes they're so far over the line you have to address it immediately. But in this case, if it's becoming a problem, that's how I would start.

[just another ref]

"C'mon ref, lighten up a little." I'd have to hear how it was said, but that doesn't sound like a problem. Could quite possibly even be said in a friendly manner.
But a kid repeatedly yelling for any call from the bench is not acceptable, in my opinion. If he sees something and spontaneously yells it (e.g. That's a foul!) I can live with that. The kid in my situation was repeatedly yelling for the 3 second call, and laughing about it. Coach had opportunity to stop it. He didn't, so I did.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Yep...did you read it with the understanding that it's from a HS kid who is getting thumped in a game?

And that's relevant, how?

It's more than fine to be compassionate, but that doesn't allow players to break the rules in the process. Perhaps this is acceptable behavior in your corner of Rome, but here, authority is expected to be respected.

Originally Posted by RIchMSN

It wouldn't get more than a little chuckle from me.

I'd chuckle, too, quite frankly. That still doesn't make it legal.

We don't use a technical foul because we're offended. (I might never use them otherwise.) We use them because to keep behavior in check, whether that behavior bugs us or not.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by bainsey

And that's relevant, how?

It's more than fine to be compassionate, but that doesn't allow players to break the rules in the process. Perhaps this is acceptable behavior in your corner of Rome, but here, authority is expected to be respected.



I'd chuckle, too, quite frankly. That still doesn't make it legal.

We don't use a technical foul because we're offended. (I might never use them otherwise.) We use them because to keep behavior in check, whether that behavior bugs us or not.

And you honestly believe that that comment is behavior that needs to be kept in check??

Like someone else already said - OOO.

[bob jenkins]

I'm reminded of the phrase that begins with "When your only tool is a hammer...."

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I'm reminded of the phrase that begins with "When your only tool is a hammer...."

..."everything looks like a nail?"

[BLydic]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I'm reminded of the phrase that begins with "When your only tool is a hammer...."

I'm reminded of the phrase that says something about "you'd argue with a possum".

FTR, a chuckle at best.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

And you honestly believe that that comment is behavior that needs to be kept in check??

Like someone else already said - OOO.

Rock,

Your argument is based significantly more on emotion than it is on facts. If you can't have this discussion logically, I don't see the point of it continuing.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Rock,

Your argument is based significantly more on emotion than it is on facts. If you can't have this discussion logically, I don't see the point of it continuing.

You know as well as anyone that communication is more than words. Context matters. Tone matters. Experience helps us determine those things.

Calling this comment an "order" simplisticly dismisses the other 90% of communication.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

You know as well as anyone that communication is more than words. Context matters. Tone matters.

There we go. That's lucid.

Context and tone indeed matter. If this sentence came from a coach that I knew well, and it came from a humouous angle, there's no way in hell I'm penalizing that. From a kid I don't know, though? (And I don't know any of them.) I don't see how any context would make this permissible for a kid to talk to an official that way.

Bear in mind, too, that Juggling passed on penalizing this sentence. Often times, passing comes off as condoning, so what happened a bit later? The kid mouthed off again. This is why you have to nip those imperative sentences in the bud.

FWIW, "That's a foul!" very seldom gets a second thought from me. It's a declarative sentence, so it's a statement of opinion (or perceived fact?) that's not directed at anyone. I could see it as the last straw of an ABS T, but that's about it.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bainsey

There we go. That's lucid.

Context and tone indeed matter. If this sentence came from a coach that I knew well, and it came from a humouous angle, there's no way in hell I'm penalizing that. From a kid I don't know, though? (And I don't know any of them.) I don't see how any context would make this permissible for a kid to talk to an official that way.

Bear in mind, too, that Juggling passed on penalizing this sentence. Often times, passing comes off as condoning, so what happened a bit later? The kid mouthed off again. This is why you have to nip those imperative sentences in the bud.

FWIW, "That's a foul!" very seldom gets a second thought from me. It's a declarative sentence, so it's a statement of opinion (or perceived fact?) that's not directed at anyone. I could see it as the last straw of an ABS T, but that's about it.

1) there's a whole range of responses between ignoring and T-ing.

2) I, for one, read the statement as along the lines of "(I wish the ref would) lighten up on the calls a bit" or "(Would you please) lighten up on the calls a bit?"

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bainsey

There we go. That's lucid.

Context and tone indeed matter. If this sentence came from a coach that I knew well, and it came from a humouous angle, there's no way in hell I'm penalizing that. From a kid I don't know, though? (And I don't know any of them.) I don't see how any context would make this permissible for a kid to talk to an official that way.

Bear in mind, too, that Juggling passed on penalizing this sentence. Often times, passing comes off as condoning, so what happened a bit later? The kid mouthed off again. This is why you have to nip those imperative sentences in the bud.

FWIW, "That's a foul!" very seldom gets a second thought from me. It's a declarative sentence, so it's a statement of opinion (or perceived fact?) that's not directed at anyone. I could see it as the last straw of an ABS T, but that's about it.

My response to the first statement would have been "that's enough" or "that will be your last comment" or something to that effect if I felt the kid were being a smart-a$$. And I would make sure his coach or several of teammates heard me say it. Then if anything else comes out his mouth it would be an easy T.