Kid quits team during game.

[stiffler3492]

Originally Posted by Welpe

What does he do after he leaves the floor? If he leaves the gym and never comes back IE quits the team then I'm not doing anything. This goes back to the thread we had here a while back about about a team suspending a player during the game. If he refuses to play, that becomes a team issue IMO.

Spirit and intent of the rule needs to be considered as well. If the player leaves the floor over a spat with his coach, I'm giving his coach leeway in dealing with the player. If he's doing it to protest a call, then I'm going to T him up.

The issue of the free throws is still at hand. Have his sub shoot? I'm still leaning towards a T here regardless of the situation. The rules don't say we can avoid a T if the reason he's leaving the floor doesn't concern us.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by stiffler3492

The issue of the free throws is still at hand. Have his sub shoot? I'm still leaning towards a T here regardless of the situation. The rules don't say we can avoid a T if the reason he's leaving the floor doesn't concern us.

But the intent of the rule is not about someone quitting the team. If the player leaves and never comes back all you are going to do is compound the issue. I do not think leaving the court for an unauthorized reason is a good call here. And if a player says he is leaving the floor and quitting the team, I think it is the common sense thing to do is move on. Now maybe the T comes already because you do not know if the player is quitting the team at the time, but I am certainly not going to T them for leaving.

Peace

[berserkBBK]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

But the intent of the rule is not about someone quitting the team. If the player leaves and never comes back all you are going to do is compound the issue. I do not think leaving the court for an unauthorized reason is a good call here. And if a player says he is leaving the floor and quitting the team, I think it is the common sense thing to do is move on. Now maybe the T comes already because you do not know if the player is quitting the team at the time, but I am certainly not going to T them for leaving.

Peace

This is what I would do. Our job is to enforce the intent of the rule. I see calling this as a T being insensitive to the situation at hand.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If the player leaves and never comes back all you are going to do is compound the issue.

Are we, though?

I know we want to take the focus off ourselves, but if someone makes a scene by peeling off a uniform and storming out in anger, that's hard NOT to call. Who does that?

We don't make the call to be jerks. We make the call to prevent crap like this. What we don't call comes across as condoning.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Are we, though?

I know we want to take the focus off ourselves, but if someone makes a scene by peeling off a uniform and storming out in anger, that's hard NOT to call. Who does that?

We don't make the call to be jerks. We make the call to prevent crap like this. What we don't call comes across as condoning.

Did you not read the entire post? I said that if he took off his jersey that might draw a T as it would not be clear why a player was doing that.

But the rest might not draw anything from me if it is clear the player is quitting the team.

In general I really do not worry about something that is likely never going to happen to any of us. It might have happened here, but I doubt most of us will ever have this dilemma honestly.

Peace

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by berserkBBK

This is what I would do. Our job is to enforce the intent of the rule. I see calling this as a T being insensitive to the situation at hand.

Our job is to enforce the rule. Knowing the intent helps, but in the end, we enforce the rule.

I don't see how you get out of this without a T. What you can't do is ignore it, even if the player wasn't the free thrower, because you have no guarantee that he isn't coming back.

[stiffler3492]

I'm with Eastshire on this one. Again, there's no reason for him to be off the floor. Someone has to shoot the free throws, and if it's not A1, and if there's nothing but himself preventing him from being on the floor, something has to happen.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by stiffler3492

The issue of the free throws is still at hand. Have his sub shoot?

Of course you do -- the same as anytime a player isn't available to shoot his/her own FTs. Why is this part even an issue?

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Of course you do -- the same as anytime a player isn't available to shoot his/her own FTs. Why is this part even an issue?

It's an issue because he isn't eligible to be subbed for (yet). He's not injured and he isn't disqualified (yet). Once he's racked up two Ts or five fouls, then his sub can come in and shoot the free throws.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

It's an issue because he isn't eligible to be subbed for (yet). He's not injured and he isn't disqualified (yet). Once he's racked up two Ts or five fouls, then his sub can come in and shoot the free throws.

If the kid isn't coming back, then are you going to wait around forever? Forfeit the game? Given that the kid really has quit, then he's DQd, at least by the time the game resumes.

Assuming you know what's going on, then the rules about the jersey and leaving the court aren't going to apply. If the disgust is with the officiating, then they do apply.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

If the kid isn't coming back, then are you going to wait around forever? Forfeit the game? Given that the kid really has quit, then he's DQd, at least by the time the game resumes.

Assuming you know what's going on, then the rules about the jersey and leaving the court aren't going to apply. If the disgust is with the officiating, then they do apply.

No, I'm not going to wait forever, I'm going to hit him with enough Ts to disqualify him and move on. What I can't do is just declare him disqualified or to no longer be a player because I have no rule support for doing so.

The rules don't say it's a technical to leave the court if upset with an official but not if upset with a coach. It's a technical for leaving for an unauthorized reason and not wanting to play any more isn't an authorized reason.

I don't understand why we're trying to bend over backwards to not penalize a team for clear violations of the rules.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

No, I'm not going to wait forever, I'm going to hit him with enough Ts to disqualify him and move on. What I can't do is just declare him disqualified or to no longer be a player because I have no rule support for doing so.

The rules don't say it's a technical to leave the court if upset with an official but not if upset with a coach. It's a technical for leaving for an unauthorized reason and not wanting to play any more isn't an authorized reason.

I don't understand why we're trying to bend over backwards to not penalize a team for clear violations of the rules.

What if after the first T the coach tells you the kid has been suspended from the team at that point and is not eligible to play?

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

What if after the first T the coach tells you the kid has been suspended from the team at that point and is not eligible to play?

I do think that's a fair question as I was (and still am) a firm proponent of the if the coach says he isn't eligible he isn't eligible concept.

In this case, I tell him he's welcome to suspend the kid after he shoots his free throws or after he's disqualified. To me, there's a material difference between a coach telling me a member of bench personnel isn't eligible and telling me a player isn't eligible.

[jTheUmp]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

If the kid isn't coming back, then are you going to wait around forever? Forfeit the game? Given that the kid really has quit, then he's DQd, at least by the time the game resumes.

Assuming you know what's going on, then the rules about the jersey and leaving the court aren't going to apply. If the disgust is with the officiating, then they do apply.

Resumption-of-play procedure, perhaps? Line 'em up (assuming no T has been called), for a free throw with nobody in the shooting position (since the eligible shooter has left the area), put the ball on the floor, count to 10, whistle the violation, move on.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

Resumption-of-play procedure, perhaps? Line 'em up (assuming no T has been called), for a free throw with nobody in the shooting position (since the eligible shooter has left the area), put the ball on the floor, count to 10, whistle the violation, move on.

With 5 on 4?