Technical after ejection?

[Brad]

I understand that you can have a forfeit. My question is -- is that your only option?

If you have ejected a coach does he get full reign to do whatever he wants while he is leaving? Can he MF you? Incite the crowd? Run around the court???

How long does he get to do this? Are you *prohibited* from issuing additional technical fouls to him because he is ejected? Is your only recourse a forfeit?

[Toren]

Originally Posted by Brad

I understand that you can have a forfeit. My question is -- is that your only option?

If you have ejected a coach does he get full reign to do whatever he wants while he is leaving? Can he MF you? Incite the crowd? Run around the court???

How long does he get to do this? Are you *prohibited* from issuing additional technical fouls to him because he is ejected? Is your only recourse a forfeit?

Rule 5-4-1
The referee may also forfeit a game if any player, team member, bench personnel or coach fails to comply with any technical-foul penalty, or repeatedly commits technical-foul infractions or other acts which make a travesty of the game.

So yes, you can continue to give the coach technicals, but beyond one additional one, why would you continue to do that? Isn't the coach doing exactly what this rule says he shouldn't do? I understand you don't want to forfeits games, nobody does, but what is your other recourse? Sit there and do nothing? Coaches do not control the game, we do.

As far as how long he gets to do this, he doesn't get to do any of those actions. He must leave the court immediately. He can't even in a sporting manner, talk to his team anymore.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Toren

Coaches do not control the game, we do.

Minor comment here - actually the quote is "Be in control of the game without controlling the game". The actions of the players control the game. We just keep the game under control. As I said - minor grammatical point.

[bob jenkins]

My opinion:

Give him one more. Then give the assistant coach (or whoever) 30 seconds to get the head coach out of the gym.

You leave if he doesn't. Leave the decision on forfeit or continue up to the league.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by mark padgett

minor comment here - actually the quote is "be in control of the game without controlling the game". The actions of the players control the game. We just keep the game under control. As i said - minor grammatical point.

+1

[Rich]

I remember when Ted Valentine gave a *third* technical to Bob Knight in 1998 and was censured for it and was not allowed to work any non-conference games involving Big 10 teams during the 1998-99 season.

Say Good Knight

I don't know if this was a Big 10 rule, completely made up, or the NCAA policy. I remember watching that game live on an NCAA package I had at the time. In my opinion, O'Neill and Hightower threw Valentine under the bus unlike any other situation I'd ever seen.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I remember when Ted Valentine gave a *third* technical to Bob Knight in 1998 and was censured for it and was not allowed to work any non-conference games involving Big 10 teams during the 1998-99 season.

Say Good Knight

I don't know if this was a Big 10 rule, completely made up, or the NCAA policy. I remember watching that game live on an NCAA package I had at the time. In my opinion, O'Neill and Hightower threw Valentine under the bus unlike any other situation I'd ever seen.

I was under the impression that this was because Valentine talked to the media or Referee Magazine, not for giving a third T. That was a long time ago and I will not claim to know all the details, but this interview was rather extensive. And at that time there was even less transparency than there is today.

Peace

[Toren]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I was under the impression that this was because Valentine talked to the media or Referee Magazine, not for giving a third T. That was a long time ago and I will not claim to know all the details, but this interview was rather extensive. And at that time there was even less transparency than there is today.

Peace

The article actually states that he was censured for the 2nd technical. Not the 3rd.

Although now that I'm re reading it, the article could mean Valentine's 2nd technical, which may have been the 3rd technical. Or it could mean the 2nd technical overall and not the 3rd as I interpreted.

Someone should have proofread that article

[dsqrddgd909]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I remember when Ted Valentine gave a *third* technical to Bob Knight in 1998 and was censured for it and was not allowed to work any non-conference games involving Big 10 teams during the 1998-99 season.

Say Good Knight

I don't know if this was a Big 10 rule, completely made up, or the NCAA policy. I remember watching that game live on an NCAA package I had at the time. In my opinion, O'Neill and Hightower threw Valentine under the bus unlike any other situation I'd ever seen.

Quote from the story:

"That didn’t set well with the 40-year-old Valentine, a man who started officiating basketball in 1978 and who by 1979 worked his first Division I game." (emphasis added)

[Scrapper1]

In NCAA, a coach can get a maximum of 2 Class A technical fouls. So if you eject him with a second T, you can't T him again. This rule change was a result of the Knight/Valentine incident that was already mentioned in the thread.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

In NCAA, a coach can get a maximum of 2 Class A technical fouls. So if you eject him with a second T, you can't T him again. This rule change was a result of the Knight/Valentine incident that was already mentioned in the thread.

I was hoping you'd chime in.

So, could an assistant receive a Class A technical for failing to get the HC out of there after an ejection? Or are we looking at a forfeit situation.

I remember the play and the article -- it was clearly a suspension for the third technical foul. The Referee article came out in 2001, well after the suspension and the incident was over. Back in 1985 when Bob Knight was ejected during the chair throwing game, it took 3 technicals to be ejected and the chair throw, I think, was only technical number 2. Number 3 was called a bit later and the AD had to be called to get Knight off the court.

Valentine is still a Big Dog who still works in the Big 10.

[RookieDude]

Maybe get Game Management to help you out on this one...

that is if the coach won't leave...have him removed.

[Adam]

I believe NCAA directly prohibits a third T, but NFHS does not. AFAIC, he's the HC until he leaves the court. If A5 gets two and then pops off from the bench, aren't you giving him #3?

[Brad]

Originally Posted by Toren

Rule 5-4-1
The referee may also forfeit a game if any player, team member, bench personnel or coach fails to comply with any technical-foul penalty, or repeatedly commits technical-foul infractions or other acts which make a travesty of the game.

That doesn't address the issue of giving technicals after a coach is ejected, but says that you can forfeit a game if the players/bench personnel/coaches repeatedly commit technical fouls.

Originally Posted by Toren

So yes, you can continue to give the coach technicals, but beyond one additional one, why would you continue to do that? Isn't the coach doing exactly what this rule says he shouldn't do? I understand you don't want to forfeits games, nobody does, but what is your other recourse? Sit there and do nothing? Coaches do not control the game, we do.

Forfeiting a game is a big deal. Giving one additional technical foul to a coach who is behaving in an unsporting manner as he is leaving the court after being ejected isn't.

Let's say he starts to leave immediately, and as he does he walks by your partner and says, "You're a cheating MFer!!!" ... Do you just automatically forfeit the game right there?

[tref]

Originally Posted by Brad

Let's say he starts to leave immediately, and as he does he walks by your partner and says, "You're a cheating MFer!!!" ... Do you just automatically forfeit the game right there?

I'd eat that one, as we've already made our point. See ya later, bye!