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Old Wed Jan 11, 2012, 12:59pm
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Originally Posted by Toren View Post
Seems we're all on the same page, apparently Nevada didn't like my wording.
That about sums it up.
Sprinkles are for winners.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 11, 2012, 07:25pm
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 7,635
I have been reading the posts and now have the time to join the discussion.

A short history lesson first. There was a time in the "ancient days" when the penalty for a Non-Intentional TF or Non-Flagrant TF was one FT and the penalty for an ITF or FTF was two free throws. Therefore, prior to the NFHS and NCAA adopting the Direct and Indirect, and different Classes of TFs, respectifully, the disqualificiation/ejection rule (remember that Players/Substitutes are disqualified, HCs are disqualfied and ejected, and all other Bench Personnel are ejected, except that all Players/Substitutes and Student BP are required to stay on the Bench under adult supervision per NFHS Rules) was quite simple: The second TF against a player, HC, or BP was, by definition, a Flagrant TF.

Furthermore, one needs to remember that: (1) a Player/Substitute can be disqaulified by: (a) five fouls (PF and TF combined), (b) two TFS, or (c) a single FPF or FTF; (2) the HC can be disqualified and ejected by: (a) two DTFs, (b) any combination of three DTFs and ITFs, or (c) a single FTF; and (3) BP are ejected by: (a) two DTFs or (b) a single FTF.

Now lets get to the crux of the argument. The current NCAA Rules are worded such that it can be interpreted only one way: No one can receive more than two TFs that are of the type that can be counted toward disqualification/ejection. As far as Players/Substitutes are concerned, if one is already disqualified by a single FPF or FTF, any subsequent TF could be judged to be Flagrant in and of itself and no further TFs should be charged. And has far as HCs and BP are concerned, once they have been disqualified and ejected, or ejected, no further TFs should be charged, meaning HC's first TF is FTF, there is not need to charge him with a second TF; instead, address his subsequent behavior using the rules at hand, meaning, the 'new' HC had better get the 'old' HC down the floor and out the door or everybody just might be going home early. And of course do not forget to file your game reports in a timely manner.

That said, from conversations that I have over the years with people who are even more powerful connections than me, that while the NFHS Rules are not as clear as the NCAA Rules, the implication is that one would handle a game played under NFHS Rules the same way one would handle a game played in NCAA Rules.

Boy my brain is tired.

MTD, Sr.
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Toledo, Ohio

Last edited by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.; Wed Jan 11, 2012 at 07:26pm. Reason: Corrected spelling in the very first sentence.
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