Technical after ejection?

[Brad]

Is it permissible under NFHS or NCAA rules to issue a technical foul to a coach after he has been ejected?

What if he refuses to leave the court? What timeframe do you allow and what behavior do you permit?

[Toren]

Originally Posted by Brad

Is it permissible under NFHS or NCAA rules to issue a technical foul to a coach after he has been ejected?

What if he refuses to leave the court? What timeframe do you allow and what behavior do you permit?

Rule 5-4-1

[tref]

The note under 10-5-4 says failure to comply with the rules of ejection may result in the game being forfeited.

[Brad]

I understand that you can have a forfeit. My question is -- is that your only option?

If you have ejected a coach does he get full reign to do whatever he wants while he is leaving? Can he MF you? Incite the crowd? Run around the court???

How long does he get to do this? Are you *prohibited* from issuing additional technical fouls to him because he is ejected? Is your only recourse a forfeit?

[Toren]

Originally Posted by Brad

I understand that you can have a forfeit. My question is -- is that your only option?

If you have ejected a coach does he get full reign to do whatever he wants while he is leaving? Can he MF you? Incite the crowd? Run around the court???

How long does he get to do this? Are you *prohibited* from issuing additional technical fouls to him because he is ejected? Is your only recourse a forfeit?

Rule 5-4-1
The referee may also forfeit a game if any player, team member, bench personnel or coach fails to comply with any technical-foul penalty, or repeatedly commits technical-foul infractions or other acts which make a travesty of the game.

So yes, you can continue to give the coach technicals, but beyond one additional one, why would you continue to do that? Isn't the coach doing exactly what this rule says he shouldn't do? I understand you don't want to forfeits games, nobody does, but what is your other recourse? Sit there and do nothing? Coaches do not control the game, we do.

As far as how long he gets to do this, he doesn't get to do any of those actions. He must leave the court immediately. He can't even in a sporting manner, talk to his team anymore.

[tref]

I dont see where in the book it says we have the authority to throw a 3rd to an ejected coach.
We all know that if a player is tossed, his actions are charged to the head coach in the form of a technical foul. But unfortunately, I dont see where we can hit a coach with a 3rd, by rule. Perhaps we could charge it to the team/bench...

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Toren

Coaches do not control the game, we do.

Minor comment here - actually the quote is "Be in control of the game without controlling the game". The actions of the players control the game. We just keep the game under control. As I said - minor grammatical point.

[bob jenkins]

My opinion:

Give him one more. Then give the assistant coach (or whoever) 30 seconds to get the head coach out of the gym.

You leave if he doesn't. Leave the decision on forfeit or continue up to the league.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by Toren

Rule 5-4-1
The referee may also forfeit a game if any player, team member, bench personnel or coach fails to comply with any technical-foul penalty, or repeatedly commits technical-foul infractions or other acts which make a travesty of the game.

That doesn't address the issue of giving technicals after a coach is ejected, but says that you can forfeit a game if the players/bench personnel/coaches repeatedly commit technical fouls.

Originally Posted by Toren

So yes, you can continue to give the coach technicals, but beyond one additional one, why would you continue to do that? Isn't the coach doing exactly what this rule says he shouldn't do? I understand you don't want to forfeits games, nobody does, but what is your other recourse? Sit there and do nothing? Coaches do not control the game, we do.

Forfeiting a game is a big deal. Giving one additional technical foul to a coach who is behaving in an unsporting manner as he is leaving the court after being ejected isn't.

Let's say he starts to leave immediately, and as he does he walks by your partner and says, "You're a cheating MFer!!!" ... Do you just automatically forfeit the game right there?

[tref]

Originally Posted by Toren

Coaches do not control the game, we do.

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Minor comment here - actually the quote is "Be in control of the game without controlling the game". The actions of the players control the game. We just keep the game under control. As I said - minor grammatical point.

How about, officials run the game & coaches run their mounths -errrrr- run their teams?

[Brad]

Originally Posted by tref

But unfortunately, I dont see where we can hit a coach with a 3rd, by rule. Perhaps we could charge it to the team/bench...

I think you are probably right. Seems like coaches have a lot of leeway once they get ejected to go nuts.

I do remember Ted Valentine giving Bobby Knight a 3rd tech after he was already ejected years back in an Indiana game.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Brad

Let's say he starts to leave immediately, and as he does he walks by your partner and says, "You're a cheating MFer!!!" ... Do you just automatically forfeit the game right there?

I'd eat that one, as we've already made our point. See ya later, bye!

[Toren]

Originally Posted by mark padgett

minor comment here - actually the quote is "be in control of the game without controlling the game". The actions of the players control the game. We just keep the game under control. As i said - minor grammatical point.

+1

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Brad

Let's say he starts to leave immediately, and as he does he walks by your partner and says, "You're a cheating MFer!!!" ... Do you just automatically forfeit the game right there?

No I do not T him or forfeit the game for that...I do include that information in my ejection report to the State and the local association - and that report goes to his/her Principal and AD.

What I will do is make sure I am nowhere near him or his path out of the gym so that if he wants to say that to me, everyone in the gym will hear. There will be no "he said, he said" issue involved.

[Rich]

I remember when Ted Valentine gave a *third* technical to Bob Knight in 1998 and was censured for it and was not allowed to work any non-conference games involving Big 10 teams during the 1998-99 season.

Say Good Knight

I don't know if this was a Big 10 rule, completely made up, or the NCAA policy. I remember watching that game live on an NCAA package I had at the time. In my opinion, O'Neill and Hightower threw Valentine under the bus unlike any other situation I'd ever seen.