Technical after ejection?

[tref]

Originally Posted by Toren

Conversely, is there anything in the rulebook prohibiting it? Seems to me the rulebook gives us the authority to judge when actions are unsporting and to penalize with a technical foul. It doesn't limit our authority by telling us we are limited to 2 direct per person.

If we were limited I think it would be written that we are limited.

I think it is written that way, because it clearly states that we hit the coach with a T when an ejected player continues to be unsporting. Not the player because he is no longer a participant.

I think if we could hit the ejected coach, by rule, it would say somewhere that we assess any additional technicals to the bench or assistant coach.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Toren

Conversely, is there anything in the rulebook prohibiting it?

Someone here recently made the case that an ejected coach becomes a team supporter, and utilizing 2-8-1, a team technical foul could be issued for any team supporter that interrupts the game.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Toren

Conversely, is there anything in the rulebook prohibiting it?

If it's not illegal, it's legal.

[ga314ref]

Originally Posted by Brad

I understand that you can have a forfeit. My question is -- is that your only option?

If you have ejected a coach does he get full reign to do whatever he wants while he is leaving? Can he MF you? Incite the crowd? Run around the court???

How long does he get to do this? Are you *prohibited* from issuing additional technical fouls to him because he is ejected? Is your only recourse a forfeit?

..but he will have very little time to hang around. Either game management (we have to have an officials game manager at all of our games) or the LEO at the game will escort him out. It's my understanding that our coaches are fined for direct technicals, and may be suspended from games. An ejection costs a player two games. It may be the same for a coach, along with a fine.

[Nevadaref]

NCAA - no 3rd technical foul is permitted according to the rules.
NFHS - each and every unsporting action is subject to a technical foul. There is no limit. I recommend forfeiting the game if more than three need to be issued to the head coach as you have obviously waited long enough for the coach to depart and instead he has offended again.

Let me also point out that there are several posts in this thread which are incorrect by rule, such as Toren's that mentions charging indirects to an assistant coach, and some others which are just shameful--those which state not to assess a T for a departing coach MF'ing your partner. At the HS level that conduct must be penalized.

[Adam]

I'm with Nevada on this one; other than the "shameful" part.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

NCAA - no 3rd technical foul is permitted according to the rules.
NFHS - each and every unsporting action is subject to a technical foul. There is no limit. I recommend forfeiting the game if more than three need to be issued to the head coach as you have obviously waited long enough for the coach to depart and instead he has offended again.

Let me also point out that there are several posts in this thread which are incorrect by rule, such as Toren's that mentions charging indirects to an assistant coach, and some others which are just shameful--those which state not to assess a T for a departing coach MF'ing your partner. At the HS level that conduct must be penalized.

Which part of my comment is shameful? You must have misread.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

, and some others which are just shameful--those which state not to assess a T for a departing coach MF'ing your partner. At the HS level that conduct must be penalized.

Read it again. He says it to the partner, about the partner. I'm not coming in from some other area of the court to T him for that...my partner certainly can if he/she chooses to.

If the departing coach says it to ME about my partner - then yes I am giving him a 3rd. But as I said before - he will have to yell it because I will be nowhere near him as he is leaving. Get away from him and his path to the door.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Brad

Is it permissible under NFHS or NCAA rules to issue a technical foul to a coach after he has been ejected?

What if he refuses to leave the court? What timeframe do you allow and what behavior do you permit?

Brad:

I presume that you are asking this question as an informational question for some of our newer officials?

MTD, Sr.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Brad:

I presume that you are asking this question as an informational question for some of our newer officials?

MTD, Sr.

I asked it to provoke discussion and because the situation happened in a game recently (not to me) and I'm not quite sure what I think!

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I have been reading the posts and now have the time to join the discussion.


A short history lesson first. There was a time in the "ancient days" when the penalty for a Non-Intentional TF or Non-Flagrant TF was one FT and the penalty for an ITF or FTF was two free throws. Therefore, prior to the NFHS and NCAA adopting the Direct and Indirect, and different Classes of TFs, respectifully, the disqualificiation/ejection rule (remember that Players/Substitutes are disqualified, HCs are disqualfied and ejected, and all other Bench Personnel are ejected, except that all Players/Substitutes and Student BP are required to stay on the Bench under adult supervision per NFHS Rules) was quite simple: The second TF against a player, HC, or BP was, by definition, a Flagrant TF.

Furthermore, one needs to remember that: (1) a Player/Substitute can be disqaulified by: (a) five fouls (PF and TF combined), (b) two TFS, or (c) a single FPF or FTF; (2) the HC can be disqualified and ejected by: (a) two DTFs, (b) any combination of three DTFs and ITFs, or (c) a single FTF; and (3) BP are ejected by: (a) two DTFs or (b) a single FTF.


Now lets get to the crux of the argument. The current NCAA Rules are worded such that it can be interpreted only one way: No one can receive more than two TFs that are of the type that can be counted toward disqualification/ejection. As far as Players/Substitutes are concerned, if one is already disqualified by a single FPF or FTF, any subsequent TF could be judged to be Flagrant in and of itself and no further TFs should be charged. And has far as HCs and BP are concerned, once they have been disqualified and ejected, or ejected, no further TFs should be charged, meaning HC's first TF is FTF, there is not need to charge him with a second TF; instead, address his subsequent behavior using the rules at hand, meaning, the 'new' HC had better get the 'old' HC down the floor and out the door or everybody just might be going home early. And of course do not forget to file your game reports in a timely manner.


That said, from conversations that I have over the years with people who are even more powerful connections than me, that while the NFHS Rules are not as clear as the NCAA Rules, the implication is that one would handle a game played under NFHS Rules the same way one would handle a game played in NCAA Rules.


Boy my brain is tired.

MTD, Sr.