let the play finish?

[bob jenkins]

Possible thread hijack:

Play: A1 attempts a two-handed, over-the-head crosscourt pass. As she releases the ball, B1 contacts her on the forearm with an open palm ("smack"). The pass is still released. If we paused the action right here, the official judges the contact to be incidental, especially given the level of play and the calls that night. Resume action. The pass floats, and B2 intercepts the pass.

Question: Is it too late to go back and get a foul on B1?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Possible thread hijack:

Play: A1 attempts a two-handed, over-the-head crosscourt pass. As she releases the ball, B1 contacts her on the forearm with an open palm ("smack"). The pass is still released. If we paused the action right here, the official judges the contact to be incidental, especially given the level of play and the calls that night. Resume action. The pass floats, and B2 intercepts the pass.

Question: Is it too late to go back and get a foul on B1?

When there is a case where the question can be asked "is it too late...", the official has to (a) have a quick whistle if there is one, and (b) quickly judge the intent of the action prior to the foul.

This is where having played the game helps.

Camps taught me to know where the ball is going (on a pass, who the intended receiver is, etc) and if illegal contact hinders that goal, then yes, grab the foul.

When there is a smack as in your play bob, I think it's easier to call a foul, even if it's late. So yes, grab that foul. It wasn't incidental and shouldn't have been thought of that way in the first place.

I think there are some fouls that in our heads, are delayed fouls. They're not immediately known to be incidental, or immediately known to have a whistle. We do wait a short amount of time to gather more information. I once saw one of the top college officials in my (ahem) state whistle a play down a good 1.5 seconds after the foul. It was 100% the right call, but just late. No a single person said anything to him.

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Possible thread hijack:

Play: A1 attempts a two-handed, over-the-head crosscourt pass. As she releases the ball, B1 contacts her on the forearm with an open palm ("smack"). The pass is still released. If we paused the action right here, the official judges the contact to be incidental, especially given the level of play and the calls that night. Resume action. The pass floats, and B2 intercepts the pass.

Question: Is it too late to go back and get a foul on B1?

If you already "judged" the contact to be incidental...then you stay with your non-call.

If you are gathering information...and have not already "judged" incidental...you could probably "go back" and get the foul...one of those have to be there.

Dave Libby told us at one of his camps..."have the courage to NOT CALL the foul, when the whole gym heard the slap". This was in relation to a lay-up...and probably just a slap on the hand.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

Dave Libby told us at one of his camps..."have the courage to NOT CALL the foul, when the whole gym heard the slap". This was in relation to a lay-up...and probably just a slap on the hand.

I really like that. Sometimes it takes more courage not to call anything if you're sure there was nothing there.

[Adam]

I think in Bob's play, you have to decide whether the slap caused the turnover, or whether A1 happened to throw a bad pass after an incidental slap.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I think in Bob's play, you have to decide whether the slap caused the turnover, or whether A1 happened to throw a bad pass after an incidental slap.

Absolutely, and the best time to make that decision is once the play has concluded NOT while the play is still developing.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by tref

Absolutely, and the best time to make that decision is once the play has concluded NOT while the play is still developing.

Partly. If you decide there was no affect on the pass, then there's no need to wait to decide. If there was some affect, then it would be better to hold a second and see if the pass might be picked off.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Partly. If you decide there was no affect on the pass, then there's no need to wait to decide. If there was some affect, then it would be better to hold a second and see if the pass might be picked off.

I think it's the other way 'round -- if you see an effect, call the foul. If you don't see an effect, wait to see if you were right.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by tref

Absolutely, and the best time to make that decision is once the play has concluded NOT while the play is still developing.

So when do you decide that the play has "concluded"? What criteria do you use to determine that?

In Bob's scenario - if the arm is slapped and the "pass" ends up going straight up in the air, I'm calling the foul right now as the slap caused that errant pass. I don't need to wait to see if someone steals the pass.

[tref]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

So when do you decide that the play has "concluded"? What criteria do you use to determine that?

In Bob's scenario - if the arm is slapped and the "pass" ends up going straight up in the air, I'm calling the foul right now as the slap caused that errant pass. I don't need to wait to see if someone steals the pass.

As you know, I'm sure, sometimes there are many plays within a single possession. The spin & ruling you put on Bobs sitch leads me to believe that you know exactly when a play has concluded. Nice call

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Possible thread hijack:

Play: A1 attempts a two-handed, over-the-head crosscourt pass. As she releases the ball, B1 contacts her on the forearm with an open palm ("smack"). The pass is still released. If we paused the action right here, the official judges the contact to be incidental, especially given the level of play and the calls that night. Resume action. The pass floats, and B2 intercepts the pass.

Question: Is it too late to go back and get a foul on B1?

I quickly look at the path of the ball. More times than not I'm coming in with a whistle that's a little late.