stupid kid; stupid parent

[just another ref]

I agree he shouldn't have gotten it for answering the question. He should have gotten it for saying it the first time.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by just another ref

He should have gotten it for saying it the first time.

Agree.

[reffish]

So, you think he said something, then ask him to repeat it, then whack him? You asked what he said and he answered. I side with the parent on this one. Be careful what you ask for. If he repeats it, the teachable moment is you then telling the kid that is inappropriate and move on. It is true that players don't get to say such things to a ref, but asking him what he said without whacking him the first time is not what we get to do as refs. Get it the first time.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by reffish

So, you think he said something, then ask him to repeat it, then whack him? You asked what he said and he answered. I side with the parent on this one. Be careful what you ask for. If he repeats it, the teachable moment is you then telling the kid that is inappropriate and move on. It is true that players don't get to say such things to a ref, but asking him what he said without whacking him the first time is not what we get to do as refs. Get it the first time.

Disagree. Personally, I wouldn't have bothered and would have just stuck him, but an official who tries to give him the chance to back down isn't the problem. Letting it go the second time would have been worse.

[Tio]

Agree with Snaq.

If you ask him to repeat it you are baiting him. Either ignore it or T him on the spot. You cannot win with parents at any level. Those after-game conversations rarely go well and should be avoided at all costs.

[Adam]

For the record, I don't advocate ignoring. It needs to be addressed.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Tio

Agree with Snaq.

If you ask him to repeat it you are baiting him. Either ignore it or T him on the spot. You cannot win with parents at any level. Those after-game conversations rarely go well and should be avoided at all costs.

I agree with you. Nothing good can come of asking him to repeat himself. If you're not sure what he said, he just got a freebie. Good on him. If you heard him the first time, whack him and move on. I don't negotiate with players.

[reffish]

Stick him the first time, for sure, or he gets a freebie. As an educator, when you ask the student to repeat something you might have heard, giving him a chance to "back down" (this is now creating an environment of challenges and what teen is going to back down from a challenge {as a parent and middle school and high school teacher, this rarely happens}) don't be surprised on what you hear and especially don't punish the kid when you ask for clarification, just correct and move on. As an official, if you ask for clarification, don't stick the kid for being honest. It may seem weird, but this will build trust on the court and build a rapport with the players. If you are not seeking that and want to, well I am not sure what you are seeking, and want to the "that ref" according to players, then stick the kid when he answers your questions honestly and be satisfied that the kid has learned his lesson, or whatever you are trying to prove.

[Moosie74]

I may say, #40 if you said what I think you said, please don't use that type of language here. No point in asking him to repeat it, nothing good will come from that and given that he's just been hit with his 5th foul he may be upset so you have to give them some room.

Last week I had an 8th grader commit his 5th foul on a nice open field tackle on the dribbler, no other way to describe it, I call the intentional foul, fouler turns to me and says thanks for the doing the game ref, have a great night and he leaves the court smiling. Table confirms 5 fouls, I inform coach and he says, I know, he (the player) already told me.

Yes my partner should have taken all that but he was too busy walking back up the court from trail.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by reffish

Be careful what you ask for.

Be careful what you ask for, because you might just get it.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by reffish

So, you think he said something, then ask him to repeat it, then whack him? You asked what he said and he answered. I side with the parent on this one. Be careful what you ask for. If he repeats it, the teachable moment is you then telling the kid that is inappropriate and move on. It is true that players don't get to say such things to a ref, but asking him what he said without whacking him the first time is not what we get to do as refs. Get it the first time.

"What did you say" is code for I'll give you chance to informally take back what was said. We've all done it with our kids(or wives and live to tell about it). It's being generous. I might say it if comment was mumbled and I caught the gist of it. IMHO in this case, a T is in order.

Can't agree more with teaching moment. I see it so much with coaches in AAU ball.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by fullor30

"What did you say" is code for I'll give you chance to informally take back what was said. We've all done it with our kids(or wives and live to tell about it). It's being generous. I might say it if comment was mumbled and I caught the gist of it. IMHO in this case, a T is in order.

Can't agree more with teaching moment. I see it so much with coaches in AAU ball.

I agree. While I would never use it, and I think it can only backfire, the OP was giving the kid a chance to unearn the T.
This comment needs to be addressed. If I didn't hear it clearly, I'll likely talk to the coach, "I only heard enough to give you a heads up coach." But if I hear it clearly, whack.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by fullor30

"What did you say" is code for I'll give you chance to informally take back what was said. We've all done it with our kids(or wives and live to tell about it). It's being generous. I might say it if comment was mumbled and I caught the gist of it. IMHO in this case, a T is in order.

Can't agree more with teaching moment. I see it so much with coaches in AAU ball.

Maybe not everyone is aware of the informal codes you use on the basketball court. If you ask a question you should be expecting a response.

The players options are:

- Refuse to do what you instructed him to do and say nothing.
- Lie to you and say he said something else.
- Truthfully answer you.

You said you do this type of stuff with your kids. Do you want your kids lying to you? Do you want your kids to refuse to do what you told them to do? Or would you rather have them obey you?

Calling a technical foul after asking what was said is a terrible way to handle the situation. You asked a question and it was answered. If you didn't want to hear the answer then you shouldn't have asked the question.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Cobra

Maybe not everyone is aware of the informal codes you use on the basketball court. If you ask a question you should be expecting a response.

The players options are:

- Refuse to do what you instructed him to do and say nothing.
- Lie to you and say he said something else.
- Truthfully answer you.

You said you do this type of stuff with your kids. Do you want your kids lying to you? Do you want your kids to refuse to do what you told them to do? Or would you rather have them obey you?

Calling a technical foul after asking what was said is a terrible way to handle the situation. You asked a question and it was answered. If you didn't want to hear the answer then you shouldn't have asked the question.

What did you say?

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by fullor30

What did you say?

I was explaining how you don't handle this type of situation well.