Pinstripes

[hawkeyegb]

Coach take a seat????

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by stiffler3492

Do you get the sense that guys just don't know what they're supposed to do? With how many emails we've gotten, it's hard to keep things straight. I know the latest email said that nobody needed waivers anymore, and that we should enforce the rules with the new changes, but man I'd be confused and I wouldn't want to do the wrong thing, so I don't blame your guy for calling around.

EDIT: By not knowing what they're supposed to do, I don't mean that they don't know the rules.

I will say it this way. If they read the case situation carefully, it was clear what rules were modified. That being said this was a very unique situation as well. It really was up to the state to take a position that either said, "Does it really matter" or "The rules must be enforced."

And if you want to be seen as blatantly ignoring a rule, then do not enforce it. I hate this as much as anyone, but I have too much to lose to care what the schools think. The schools ultimately should have known when they got those jerseys what was legal or not and should be put ultimately responsibility. If they choose to do that, they would not be in that situation. And I am not sacrificing my accomplishments for a school who cannot read the rulebook or review the rules. And I really have no sympathy in this state where for the last 3 years or so this has been a big deal. It is like knowing you are driving in a place that will ticket you for 2 miles over the speed limit and going around and going 10 miles over and then complaining you had to pay the fine.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I will say it this way. If they read the case situation carefully, it was clear what rules were modified. That being said this was a very unique situation as well. It really was up to the state to take a position that either said, "Does it really matter" or "The rules must be enforced."

And if you want to be seen as blatantly ignoring a rule, then do not enforce it. I hate this as much as anyone, but I have too much to lose to care what the schools think. The schools ultimately should have known when they got those jerseys what was legal or not and should be put ultimately responsibility. If they choose to do that, they would not be in that situation. And I am not sacrificing my accomplishments for a school who cannot read the rulebook or review the rules. And I really have no sympathy in this state where for the last 3 years or so this has been a big deal. It is like knowing you are driving in a place that will ticket you for 2 miles over the speed limit and going around and going 10 miles over and then complaining you had to pay the fine.

Peace

You're absolutely right. But I commend the other school for violating twice on the free throws, especially when they ended up losing by 2 points.

I doubt the school has the funds to run out and get new uniforms the remainder of this season, so it seems like they're going to be stuck with this for every "home" game the rest of the season.

Last night I had to deal with colors of prewrap in the hair. Mostly a light blue (to match the road jersey), but two with black and one with beige. A quick chat with the head coach during warmups got this fixed without anyone else knowing about the conversation (and she said she was well aware of the rule, so why are the girls not dressed properly?) and life went on. But it's a pain in the a$$ having to be the fashion police for every girls game I work.

[stiffler3492]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And if you want to be seen as blatantly ignoring a rule, then do not enforce it. I hate this as much as anyone, but I have too much to lose to care what the schools think. The schools ultimately should have known when they got those jerseys what was legal or not and should be put ultimately responsibility. If they choose to do that, they would not be in that situation. And I am not sacrificing my accomplishments for a school who cannot read the rulebook or review the rules. And I really have no sympathy in this state where for the last 3 years or so this has been a big deal. It is like knowing you are driving in a place that will ticket you for 2 miles over the speed limit and going around and going 10 miles over and then complaining you had to pay the fine.

Peace

I certainly understand where you're coming from. Good analogy as well.

Originally Posted by RichMSN

You're absolutely right. But I commend the other school for violating twice on the free throws, especially when they ended up losing by 2 points.

I doubt the school has the funds to run out and get new uniforms the remainder of this season, so it seems like they're going to be stuck with this for every "home" game the rest of the season.

That is, if the officials assigned to their games choose to enforce the rule. I know that this year isn't the first that Morgan Park has had the pinstripe jerseys, either.

Maybe it needs to start with the jersey makers themselves. When a school calls in an order, the manufacturer can tell the school whether or not the jersey is legal.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by stiffler3492

...start with the jersey makers themselves. When a school calls in an order, the manufacturer can tell the school whether or not the jersey is legal.

You have it backwards. The schools should know whether or not what they desire is legal. Manufacturers can't account for all the different rules throughout the country.

[stiffler3492]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

You have it backwards. The schools should know whether or not what they desire is legal. Manufacturers can't account for all the different rules throughout the country.

Fine, but shouldn't the NFHS rules be uniform (no pun intended) across the board? Shouldn't all states just follow the NFHS guidelines for uniforms?

Simplify it!!!

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

You have it backwards. The schools should know whether or not what they desire is legal. Manufacturers can't account for all the different rules throughout the country.

No, but a sporting good company sales rep who sells uniforms to a school should be knowledgable enough to know whether a uniform he is selling is legal or not. The first illegal uniform that he sold me was legal would be the last I bought for him.

[packersowner]

Originally Posted by berserkBBK

Proviso West 51st Annual Holiday Tournament. Game 1. Morgan Park vs Hinsdale Central Varsity Basketball game

You can see the illegal uniforms.
5 minutes: Both free throws were given and both were intentionally missed.
Like JRut says the state wants us to just give the T and have the coach take a seat.

Anyone else laugh when the kid trips at about the 5:13 mark after missing the two free throws. Thought that was good comeuppance.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by packersowner

Anyone else laugh when the kid trips at about the 5:13 mark after missing the two free throws. Thought that was good comeuppance.

I thought the kid intentionally missing the free throws was good sportsmanship, personally. If I were a coach, I'd do the exact same thing.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by stiffler3492

That is, if the officials assigned to their games choose to enforce the rule. I know that this year isn't the first that Morgan Park has had the pinstripe jerseys, either.

Well they had a waiver before. And the recent modifications did not include their jerseys. It is unfortunate for them, but not our problem.

Originally Posted by stiffler3492

Maybe it needs to start with the jersey makers themselves. When a school calls in an order, the manufacturer can tell the school whether or not the jersey is legal.

I agree.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

You have it backwards. The schools should know whether or not what they desire is legal. Manufacturers can't account for all the different rules throughout the country.

I do not agree with this for this reason. These are NF Rules and they could easily follow or know they are selling to schools that are NF teams. Also they do this in baseball with bats. The bats must have markings on them or they are not legal (helmets too). It is that simple and I do blame part of this on the Manufacturers or the sellers. All they would have to do is review the rules and make sure certain things are not allowed.

Peace

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by hawkeyegb

Coach take a seat????

Yes...10-5-4 (unless IL has an exception I'm not aware of).

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not agree with this for this reason. These are NF Rules and they could easily follow or know they are selling to schools that are NF teams. Also they do this in baseball with bats. The bats must have markings on them or they are not legal (helmets too). It is that simple and I do blame part of this on the Manufacturers or the sellers. All they would have to do is review the rules and make sure certain things are not allowed.

Peace

And the schools who order pinstriped uniforms don't have access to the same rules citations?

Sorry, but the schools are the ones who have rules to follow and who suffer if the rules are broken. They need to do their due diligence when making purchases. Could be as simple as including the actual pertinent rules in any correspondence with the vendors.

Akin to having 6 men on the court. Officials shouldn't let it happen but in the end it's on the teams to make sure they follow the rule or pay the price.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

And the schools who order pinstriped uniforms don't have access to the same rules citations?

Sorry, but the schools are the ones who have rules to follow and who suffer if the rules are broken. They need to do their due diligence when making purchases. Could be as simple as including the actual pertinent rules in any correspondence with the vendors.

Akin to having 6 men on the court. Officials shouldn't let it happen but in the end it's on the teams to make sure they follow the rule or pay the price.

Having been in sales over the years and having to sell products to people based on circumstances, it is always the responsibility of those that are selling a product to know their customer. If their customer has special needs or certain regulations or certain rules they must follow, it is their job to know this on some level. Or at the very least ask. Not saying they have to know every little idiosyncrasies, but they should know basic rules like how big the side panels can be or if a the lettering has some restrictions. I have a family member that bought a car in Iowa and the dealership knew all the laws of Illinois and knew what was required before the deal was final. Now if you are selling a uniform to a team that plays under National Federation Rules, you would think they would know something about those rules when it comes to the school you are selling them to.

I am not absolving any responsibility of the schools. I know that there are schools that had new uniforms purchased for them by the "seller" because they gave them illegal uniforms. Now why do you think they did that if they did not feel responsible? Or if you are a school and you do not want the potential to start every contest with a T, then you better also know what you are buying and if it is not right, you send it back. I know one school that had just bought new uniforms was so upset he said he would never deal with them again. Now that company just lost a customer that might give them thousands of dollars in business all because they did not cross all "t" and dot the "i."

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Having been in sales over the years and having to sell products to people based on circumstances, it is always the responsibility of those that are selling a product to know their customer. ...

Peace

No doubt, vendors who aren't meticulous in knowing the rules should and will suffer by losing business. But in the end I don't think the schools can shift the blame to the vendors for illegal uniforms unless the vendor didn't follow the instructions of the schools buying the uniforms. In those situations I think the schools would have remedies with their state associations. But if the school were lax or lazy in their duties in regards to clearly stating what is not acceptable then it's their fault if it adversely affects their games.