Have any of you ever called...

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bainsey

...a five-second throw-in violation, when you weren't administering?

It's been a busy couple of days as far as Christmas preparations and the like go, so I've mostly been following this thread on the phone while out and about. My single post thus far was while sitting at the Wisconsin / Mississippi Valley State game yesterday afternoon. I'll try to summarize my thoughts with some quick bulletpoints:

-- Yes, I was the "new trail."

-- Yes, I had a bus driven over me then had it stop, reverse, and back over me again.

-- garef314: My count in neither throw-in was *slow*. I timed the first throw-in (the one after the timeout) with a stopwatch and it's 3.5 seconds from handing her the ball until she released the throw-in. If you watch the video again, I'm between 3 and 4 on my count when the ball was released. Exactly how is that slow?

-- I was hyper-aware of the situation and remained so during the entire play until I got hit by the bus. The ball went through the basket with 8 seconds remaining in the game. But as we all know the five second count doesn't begin until the ball is at the disposal of the thrower-in. I was aware that the new offense might try to delay here, but I'm not going to change how I administer the count just because the home team had used up all their timeouts and because there were only 8 seconds left in the game. I started counting at the exact same place I would've at any other point in the game.

-- I started the count when the clock was between 5 and 6 seconds left in the game. Yes, I had an eye on the ball and thrower-in and another on the clock. I would've had a violation, likely, with less than a second left in the game had it gotten that far. The bus arrived before that.

-- tomegun: I was angry, angrier than I've ever been on a court before or since. And yet, watching the video, I feel I'm about as composed as I could've possibly been, given the circumstances. I used to gesture with my hands and arms when talking, but I've really worked on not doing that and I'm happy that my hands, for the most part, stay by my sides.

-- I moved to a new town in 2008 and this game was in December of 2009 -- I drove separately. After the game, I went in the locker room, changed clothes quickly without showering, and left without saying a word. I was as close to the edge as I've ever been before or since.

-- My partner was not the senior official. Yes, he's older by about 8-10 years, but I was 40 at the time in my 23rd season of working high school basketball and at least 18 years since I started regularly working varsity games. Who the R was is irrelevant, really -- we always take turns with the duties and we decide at the school who the R will be on a given night.

I spent a lot of time trying to figure out how I could've handled that situation better. I've spent a lot of time thinking about that situation when I'm the senior guy working with a relatively new person. Even though I didn't fit that description, I never want to be someone who steps on a partner like this for *any* reason.

The aftermath is that the winning coach (the home team did not hit their last shot) was more appalled at our disagreement than the call (which, knowing the typical rural girls' coach -- he had no clue that the new lead couldn't make this call). He contacted the commissioner himself and the commissioner called me a few days later. I explained to the commissioner exactly what had happened and he, too, was more concerned about the appearance of us disagreeing on the court than with what that official did, although he knew enough that he couldn't believe that the lead would make such a call. I still work for that assignor -- but only 1-2 dates a year (my choice -- he only has one school less than an hour from my house).

I deleted the original thread because one poster decided to come onto the thread and use it as an excuse to blast me, for whatever reason. BTW, I never said this was a terribly well-officiated game. It was a sloppy, foul-ridden game with the score in the low 30s. I think it's hard for any crew to look good in a game like this.

I really don't want to relive this over and over every couple of seasons, but if anyone has any questions, go ahead. Or PM me. I refuse to deal with personalities. On the other hand, film don't lie.

[just another ref]

Was this typical for this guy? Did he make other calls across the court in front of you?

[JRutledge]

Rich,

You had every right to be ticked off. I think you handled it better than most would have.

Peace

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Rich,

You had every right to be ticked off. I think you handled it better than most would have.

Amen to that. The self control you demonstrated in a situation when I would be tempted to physically remove my partner's head from his shoulders is amazing.

And it sucks, Rich, that you got dumped on the first time you tried to talk about this situation, and again this time.

That's one of the things I really don't like about this board sometimes (and I do it too...I'm trying to improve), is the unintentional game of "gotcha" that we all get into from time to time, trying to find something relatively unrelated to nitpick (oh, your count was slow....which it wasn't) while ignoring the larger message (you got rolled over by a Mac truck...what can we all learn from this situation) in an effort to make ourselves look better, smarter or more experienced. I wish we all did a little less of it, or at least approached it in a much less condescending way.

[fiasco]

[JRutledge]

Exactly.

Peace

[Adam]

Be late. Nope.
Be right. Nope.
Be needed. Nope.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well this was posted all over a couple of other places, so do not feel bad. When it is on YouTube, it is out of your control. But it is a learning experience for sure for all of us. I like tapes like this as it gets to show how a game ending situation can get us in trouble. Rich did nothing wrong here and as far as I am concerned he handled himself well considering everything that took place. The other officials was just dead wrong and I would really like an explanation why he felt this was his duty to make this call in the first place. This is about as rookie a rookie mistake can be.

Peace

A big part of me wishes I could read an explanation from the calling official on that play.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

A big part of me wishes I could read an explanation from the calling official on that play.

It would have to be from bizzaro world. Three is in no rule, mechanic or standard that makes him call and even weirder for it to take place at this time of the game. I just do not understand this at all.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It would have to be from bizzaro world. Three is in no rule, mechanic or standard that makes him call and even weirder for it to take place at this time of the game. I just do not understand this at all.

Peace

Me neither, and any explanation would likely be an elaborate version of, "I had a brain fart." But as adamant as he seemed, I have to imagine he was pretty sure of himself and felt he had a good reason for it. Reading it would be a sort of anthropological exercise.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Me neither, and any explanation would likely be an elaborate version of, "I had a brain fart." But as adamant as he seemed, I have to imagine he was pretty sure of himself and felt he had a good reason for it. Reading it would be a sort of anthropological exercise.

Let's just say he felt justified that night and a while later. No idea if he would still feel that way.

The worst part was that I had to go administer that designated spot throw-in to the home team that was down 1 with the added seconds put back on the clock. The last-second shot attempt (more of a heave) from my corner had some contact and I did not call a foul, but I was waiting for a call to come from the trail position.

Good times, good times.

[TheOracle]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Me neither, and any explanation would likely be an elaborate version of, "I had a brain fart." But as adamant as he seemed, I have to imagine he was pretty sure of himself and felt he had a good reason for it. Reading it would be a sort of anthropological exercise.

Not really. That is so blatantly bad that he cannot recover. It would be like Costas interviewing Sandusky.

[TheOracle]

[QUOTE=RichMSN;808102]After the game, I went in the locker room, changed clothes quickly without showering, and left without saying a word. I was as close to the edge as I've ever been before or since.

Tons of respect for you. This is the professional way to deal with this. You cannot change what happened on the court, and you are not going to change your partner's mind or opinion.

I found that when someone does something like this, usually they know, and there is no benefit to discussing it in the locker room after the game. Many times I have had the 3rd guy ask, "Why didn't you say anything?" My response is always, "I didn't have to. We all know what happened, and he knows he screwed it up. No need to pour salt in a wound."

Making your opinion known once is fine, especially if the offender brings it up himself in the locker room after the game. Starting an argument or getting angry for more than a second or two is pointless, especially if you have no real control, and you are clearly correct.