Charge, After Charge, After Charge

[tref]

RA coming to a HS near you by 2017... if this 2012 thing doesnt pop off

[NCHSAA]

Originally Posted by tref

RA coming to a HS near you by 2017... if this 2012 thing doesnt pop off

You know what, thats a good point. Even under NCAA rules we would have still had 15 though. Not one was in the RA that I can recall, but having 15 I am liable to foget one or two.

[Welpe]

Good defense, poor offense or a combination of both?

[stiffler3492]

Man, maybe it's just me improving, but I've already called probably 15 PC fouls this year. I think I'm doing a better job of seeing how the defense got there.

Someone told me something that a former NBA ref told him: 90% of all block/charge contact plays should be offensive fouls. Agree or disagree?

[tref]

Originally Posted by stiffler3492

Someone told me something that a former NBA ref told him: 90% of all block/charge contact plays should be offensive fouls. Agree or disagree?

Either somebody took something out of context or that's why he's a former NBA ref.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by stiffler3492

Man, maybe it's just me improving, but I've already called probably 15 PC fouls this year. I think I'm doing a better job of seeing how the defense got there.

Someone told me something that a former NBA ref told him: 90% of all block/charge contact plays should be offensive fouls. Agree or disagree?

Originally Posted by tref

Either somebody took something out of context or that's why he's a former NBA ref.

Actually that person really said 9 out of 10 (which is 90% percent) we should call PC fouls and we would be right.

Obviously I agree as I call a lot of PC fouls long before I ever heard that comment from a person that is in my Association's Hall of Fame and is a former NBA Official. Then again I think we penalize defense too much for things they do not do illegally. It really drives me crazy when people justify fouls on the defense because they lean back too far or they are not vertical.

Peace

[zm1283]

I think I call more PC fouls than most partners I have. It seems like a lot of guys penalize the defense at times simply because the contact looks bad.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It really drives me crazy when people justify fouls on the defense because they lean back too far or they are not vertical.

Same here. I got into a...passionate...discussion with a friend of mine over this after I had called a PC foul in game. He said he might not have called it because the defender had flopped because he fell back early to absorb to contact and that he might have even called a block.

[letemplay]

I believe I see too many fouls on the offense, when defense gets there too late (imo), toe taps in front of an offensive player and takes it in the chest. I believe it hurts the game of basketball. I'm aware many will disagree, but the offensive player should have a reasonable chance to change direction, and I don't see that happening on some of these calls. You can debate just exactly what is "reasonable".

[NCHSAA]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Good defense, poor offense or a combination of both?

Pretty good defense to take this many, but the coach also teaches his players to take charges and to not give up their position.

[Camron Rust]

The offensive player has to be aware of the defenders in the vicinity and the fact that they are going to try to stop the offensive player. They have to be ready to have their path blocked at any time.

The player with the ball is the one with the most choices and control in the game. That is why the rules on legally defending such a player require no time/distance where all other situations do.

[letemplay]

and that my position would elicit several responses to the contrary while I was away from my computer on lunch break. I know partly what I say is NOT supported by rule or by POE the last several years. I'm also not saying I'm going to ignore that and make calls based on how I feel. It is hard for me to define my opinion with a mere keyboard and those responding should not take me as literal as I sounded. I don't believe every crash is the fault of the offense. I wish I could somehow convert my desktop to a on court clinic/diagram to explain what plays I'm describing, but since I can't I'll do the best I can this way: Let's say player A1 has received a pass from top of key in the right side wing/foul line extended area. He stands facing the basket in triple threat position, with the intent to shoot, pass or dribble. A defender B2 comes to guard him and obtains LGP, in his direct path between the spot he's standing in and the basket, some 20' away. Now obviously A1 cannot, for instance, pump fake, and then drive in that direct path to the basket because of B2's position. Suppose he uses that pump fake, or a shoulder fake to his right, then begins a quick take off move to his left on a path that would take him in a fairly similar line to the foul line. He's moving quickly and strongly when B2, reading his direction, now has to change his position to try and get to the spot in front of the offensive player. B2 manages to get along side A1 and quickly throws his foot into his path (the toe tap I refer to) and we have a crash. There's no chance in heck for A1 to change direction, let alone stop, yet he's called for the PC in a lot more plays nowadays then I can remember. I'm aware time and distance are not considered here...maybe I'm saying I think they should be or wish they were. Maybe I'm dating myself, but it doesn't seem that long ago we were telling a coach: "he wasn't there in time". It just seems like it's taking some flow from the game when guys are allowed to throw themselves into an offensive players path, we stop the play, saddle the kid with a foul, go setup for another oob throw, wait on subs, then A does it back to B on the other end and we got no basketball being played. Ok, that's my Friday rant!

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by letemplay

... He's moving quickly and strongly when B2, reading his direction, now has to change his position to try and get to the spot in front of the offensive player. B2 manages to get along side A1 and quickly throws his foot into his path (the toe tap I refer to) and we have a crash...

What you describe sounds like a trip. I can't see a crash if all that B2 got in A1's path was a foot.