scorebook leaves table during halftime

[chseagle]

Had this happen during Girls' JV last night during halftime: buzzer sounded to sound halftime, I checked both books real quick to see if the matched the board & vice versa. After done with that, I left the table with both books still present for a stretching break & to check action in the other gym.

Came back to the table and did not find the home scorebook present at the table. The coach requested that she see the book while in the locker room at halftime & the coach was carrying the scorebook under her clipboard when the team came back into the gym.

I did notify the floor officials of the scorebook leaving the table, however the response was that since there were no changes done to the scorebook no penalty will be assessed.

2-11-11 states: Compare records with the visiting scorer after each goal, each foul, each charged time-out, & end of quarter & extra period, notifying the referee at once of any discrepancy. If the mistake cannot be found, the referee shall accept the record of the official scorebook, unless s/he has knowledge which permits him/her to decide otherwise. If the discrepancy is in the score & the mistake is not resolved, the referee shall accept the progressive team totals of the official scorebook. A bookkeeping mistake may be corrected at any time until the referee approves the final score. The scorebook of the home team shall be the official book, unless the referee rules otherwise. The official scorebook shall remain at the scorer's table throughout the game, including all intermissions.

How can this be handled differently next time since there seemed to be a misapplication of the rules since the official scorebook was removed from the table during halftime? What penalty/penalties if this happens again?

Another question concerning the scorebook: what is the recommended action if the scorer (or designated assistant) does not stay with the scorebook at all times?

[Adam]

I think we all know the answer lies with the use of less-lethal force.

[SNIPERBBB]

2.11.11 SITUATION:

Team A's scorebook is the official scorebook for the game. Team A's scorer is requested by Team A's head coach to bring the scorebook to the locker room at halftime to review several pieces of information.

RULING: Prohibited; the scorebook shall remain at the table throughout the game, including all intermissions. There is no specific penalty for removing the scorebook; however, if the officials believe the scorebook was removed as an unsporting act, it could be penalized accordingly. (10-1-8; 10-3-6; 10-4-1)

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by chseagle

. . . did not find the home scorebook present at the table. The coach requested that she see the book while in the locker room at halftime & the coach was carrying the scorebook under her clipboard when the team came back into the gym.

Here's where NFHS really offers no help. It gives us a rule but no specific consequences to mete out if it happens as you describe.

On the one hand, the Rulebook says, "The official scorebook shall remain at the scorer's table throughout the game, including all intermissions" (2-11-11).

On the other hand, the Casebook says, regarding removing the scorebook as you mentioned: "Prohibited; the scorebook shall remain at the table throughout the game, including all intermissions. There is no specific penalty for removing the scorebook; however, if the officials believe the scorebook was removed as an unsporting act, it could be penalized accordingly" (2.11.11)

So, what about the less-than-unsporting-act in the situation cited above? You tell me.

Question in this regard on our state test this year led to a lot of "less than 100%" test scores. (The correct answer, according to our state test, was apparently, "Take no action whatsoever, as there has been no changing of an official game record and the reason for taking the scorebook was legitimate." The question many like me had in response was this: How can it be legitimate if it's prohibited?)

I vote for lethal force.

[RookieDude]

chseagle...

The "action" I would take is to advise the Coach NOT to take the official scorebook to the locker room anymore. The book is to stay at the table.

Having said that...I would remind the scorer that they have responsabilities...and one of them is to make sure the book stays at the table.

I usually don't go looking for trouble...enough of it comes to me without trying to hard.

[Ignats75]

If I am the R, the visiting book becomes the official book for the 2d half.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

chseagle...

The "action" I would take is to advise the Coach NOT to take the official scorebook to the locker room anymore. The book is to stay at the table.

Having said that...I would remind the scorer that they have responsabilities...and one of them is to make sure the book stays at the table.

I usually don't go looking for trouble...enough of it comes to me without trying to hard.

I plan on doing that today, as we have a JH Boys' Game right after the HS practice ends.

This was the first time I had ever seen the scorebook removed from the table at halftime.

Like I mentioned before, I did notify the floor officials of the scorebook being removed & I also quickly checked the scorebook before play resumed to verify no changes were made.

I'm just trying to grasp why/how this can go without penalty when 2.11.11 states the official scorebook is to remain at the table at all times.

Concerning talking/communicating with the scorers is like trying to pull teeth as they seem to become deaf when making suggestions as to their duties/responsibilities.

[SNIPERBBB]

Its not the first rule to not have a penalty other than having to stop play.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

Its not the first rule to not have a penalty other than having to stop play.

AKA a very fine line has to be crossed for any penalty to be administered.

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by chseagle

I'm just trying to grasp why/how this can go without penalty when 2.11.11 states the official scorebook is to remain at the table at all times.

...because unless we think it is an unsporting act...we leave it alone.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

...because unless we think it is an unsporting act

Like the book coming back with all the fouls for one team being erased.

[Rich]

A solution in search of a problem...

I had a coach tonight whose team scored 1 point on the first quarter who was disproportionately concerned about the other coach being out of the box. That and the 50+ fouls and the student I had removed made it a long night. Had the book gone to the locker room, I'd have probably said, "So what?"

[SAK]

Originally Posted by chseagle

2-11-11 states: Compare records with the visiting scorer after each goal, each foul, each charged time-out, & end of quarter & extra period, notifying the referee at once of any discrepancy. If the mistake cannot be found, the referee shall accept the record of the official scorebook, unless s/he has knowledge which permits him/her to decide otherwise. If the discrepancy is in the score & the mistake is not resolved, the referee shall accept the progressive team totals of the official scorebook. A bookkeeping mistake may be corrected at any time until the referee approves the final score. The scorebook of the home team shall be the official book, unless the referee rules otherwise. The official scorebook shall remain at the scorer's table throughout the game, including all intermissions.

How can this be handled differently next time since there seemed to be a misapplication of the rules since the official scorebook was removed from the table during halftime? What penalty/penalties if this happens again?

Another question concerning the scorebook: what is the recommended action if the scorer (or designated assistant) does not stay with the score book at all times?

Why should the scorer have to stay with the book? The rule only states that the book must remain at the table. I understand thinking behind this but the scorer is free to go and do what ever he/she wants to do during the intermission so long as the book remains at the table. From my experience, there is always at least one person that does not leave the table and I have never had the book changed when it remains on the table.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by SAK

Why should the scorer have to stay with the book? The rule only states that the book must remain at the table. I understand thinking behind this but the scorer is free to go and do what ever he/she wants to do during the intermission so long as the book remains at the table. From my experience, there is always at least one person that does not leave the table and I have never had the book changed when it remains on the table.

SAK,

It's not written in rule 2-11-11 that the scorer has to stay with the book at all times.

However in "INSTRUCTIONS TO AND DUTIES OF THE SCORER
FOR BASKETBALL GAMES" it states:

DURING INTERMISSIONS:
1. Either the official scorer or a delegated assistant must be at the
scorer’s table with the official scorebook at all times.

So in all actuality it's a responsibility the scorer has that the scorebook stay at the table & is under his/her (or designated assistant's) watch.

[SCalScoreKeeper]

Eagle-I've never seen this happen in all my years of keeping score.That being said-you notified your floor officials which is all you are required to do.Even JV scorekeepers at my school know the book never leaves the table.

RichMSN,
I think I've got one that tops your game

My school hosted a Varsity girls tournament during the first week (here 11/29-12/1).Game 2 of the second day is a semi-final to decide who will play for fifth place.In this game we had 47 fouls and approximately 20 held-ball situations (I believe the tally was 17).We also had 1 player technical,each team received a delay of game warning for breaking the plane on an inbounds play,and another technical foul for breaking the plane after being warned.The coaches combined to use 7/10 possible time-outs and their teams combined to shoot 15/61 from the free-throw line.Your final score was 30-27 and the second half took about 1 hr 45 minutes