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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 07, 2011, 10:34pm
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With all due respect to so many other great officials on this board and posting on this topic, the rule of thumb should be: "Fiasco, do what you think is right in that situation. You are the official calling the game, not us. Ultimately, in or out isn't going to matter that much, as long as you can use it at the right time to make a call."

If we are at the point as officials where we have to have instructions or suggestions about when to have a whistle in our mouth and when not to, then maybe we need to reevaluate your work as an official. And if FED or anyone else gets to that point, then I hope someone somewhere seriously begins to 'question authority' about it.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 07, 2011, 10:52pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
fiasco better be doing this in an NCAA-W game, and not in a high school game. I can't comment on NFHS mechanics, but we don't stand in the "old" first lane space, below the block, in IAABO mechanics.



So do I. Always have. Always will. And will always be doing high school games.
You know, you better be careful saying that you always will be doing something.

For the past few years, officials I know have been making up reasons that we (in 2-person) don't chop on a frontcourt endline throw-in just to justify the then-thinking on mechanics. Me? I said, "You know -- if they want us to chop in three-person, there's no reason we can't chop in 2." And that got pooh-poohed -- funny, now that's the proper NFHS mechanic. I guess my thinking was just 2 years ahead of time (I didn't chop then, but I questioned why we weren't if it was so crucial in 3-person).

Maybe the NFHS or IAABO will decide that standing on the block is proper. And then you'll do it. It really doesn't matter at all where one stands on the first of multiple throws.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 07, 2011, 11:46pm
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Originally Posted by tref View Post
Ohh you're doing NCAA-W?
You've heard the phrase "when in Rome" right?

I don't love that varsity officials in my area wear the side panel shirts, but that's just what's done in my area. So I went out and got a side panel shirt. Do I do college games? No I don't. But, when in Rome...

Are you picking up what I'm putting down?
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 08, 2011, 01:00am
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Originally Posted by RichMSN View Post
You know, you better be careful saying that you always will be doing something.

For the past few years, officials I know have been making up reasons that we (in 2-person) don't chop on a frontcourt endline throw-in just to justify the then-thinking on mechanics. Me? I said, "You know -- if they want us to chop in three-person, there's no reason we can't chop in 2." And that got pooh-poohed -- funny, now that's the proper NFHS mechanic. I guess my thinking was just 2 years ahead of time (I didn't chop then, but I questioned why we weren't if it was so crucial in 3-person).

Maybe the NFHS or IAABO will decide that standing on the block is proper. And then you'll do it. It really doesn't matter at all where one stands on the first of multiple throws.
I agree with you, but there are some powers-that-be in our area that are adamant that you stand in the same spot for both free throws. So on the first of two, you're supposed to get "wide and deep" just like you do on the second one. I don't agree with it, but I do it.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 08, 2011, 07:16am
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Change My Tune ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMSN View Post
You know, you better be careful saying that you always will be doing something. Maybe the NFHS or IAABO will decide that standing on the block is proper. And then you'll do it. It really doesn't matter at all where one stands on the first of multiple throws.
I agree with almost all of your post. However, here in "100% IAABO Connecticut", standing in the "first lane space" on the first of two free throws has been the one of the most criticized "mechanics" at clinics, camps, etc., for the past thirty years. In Connecticut, and not just in my little corner of the State, standing in the "first lane space" on the first of two free throws is considered lazy, absolutely forbidden, and counts against one's rating if observed. So, where one stands really does matter. But you are right, IAABO may turn around and change the mechanic tomorrow, and I would change along with everyone else.

What's the NFHS take on this?
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Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Dec 08, 2011 at 07:55am.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 08, 2011, 08:15am
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Originally Posted by zm1283 View Post
I agree with you, but there are some powers-that-be in our area that are adamant that you stand in the same spot for both free throws. So on the first of two, you're supposed to get "wide and deep" just like you do on the second one. I don't agree with it, but I do it.
Of course. My point was this: Those powers that be will make up all kinds of reasons why you should be wide and deep, even though it doesn't matter in the least bit where the L stands during a free throw when another follows. And then if the mechanic ever changes, they'll pretend like they never said those things.

I'd be happier if they just said, "We stand there because it's the required mechanic."

When people asked why we didn't chop in time as the T in 2-person (unlike 3) with a frontcourt endline throw-in, the reasons were many (and all stupid) -- my favorite being that "you can't be looking across the court to chop in time -- someone will get floored over on your side while you're ball-watching." Now it's the proper mechanic. The ball watching excuse is only valid if you feel you have to stare at the ball to know when it's been touched on the floor.

When I work NCAAW games I have to remind myself to stand on the block.

Last edited by Rich; Thu Dec 08, 2011 at 08:17am.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 08, 2011, 10:21am
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Originally Posted by jkumpire View Post
With all due respect to so many other great officials on this board and posting on this topic, the rule of thumb should be: "Fiasco, do what you think is right in that situation. You are the official calling the game, not us. Ultimately, in or out isn't going to matter that much, as long as you can use it at the right time to make a call."

If we are at the point as officials where we have to have instructions or suggestions about when to have a whistle in our mouth and when not to, then maybe we need to reevaluate your work as an official. And if FED or anyone else gets to that point, then I hope someone somewhere seriously begins to 'question authority' about it.
Are you serious? Fiasco asked the question, are you suggesting we (collectively) shouldn't have answered?
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 08, 2011, 10:28am
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I used to stand on the block for the first, I don't anymore because we were told not to. I don't get quite as deep and wide as for the second, but I get OOB and out of the extended lane area.

I used to keep my whistle out on the first of two because I wouldn't need it. After my experience last week of forgetting to put it back in, I'm keeping the whistle in at all times.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 08, 2011, 11:32am
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Are you serious? Fiasco asked the question, are you suggesting we (collectively) shouldn't have answered?
Yeah, I wasn't offended by any of the answers. In fact, I thought they were all good. I need to keep my whistle in and just learn how not to bring subs in when they shouldn't come in.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 08, 2011, 11:55am
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
I used to stand on the block for the first, I don't anymore because we were told not to. I don't get quite as deep and wide as for the second, but I get OOB and out of the extended lane area.

I used to keep my whistle out on the first of two because I wouldn't need it. After my experience last week of forgetting to put it back in, I'm keeping the whistle in at all times.
ditto
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 09, 2011, 10:20am
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No!

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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Are you serious? Fiasco asked the question, are you suggesting we (collectively) shouldn't have answered?
No. But to me it is rather frustrating that as I read the question someone was so unsure of what to do with a whistle during a game he needed to get advice about it. It seemed to me he felt like if he had it out he was wrong, and should have kept it in, or visa versa.

Maybe I'm misreading things, but it seems to me that these days in basketball and in other sports officials are being told there is only one right way to do things, only one right place to stand, only one right way to signal. And I immediately revolt at such thinking these days.

It just goes along with "best practices" or "continuous improvement plans" and all sorts of other things in our society today that demand we do everything exactly the same, instead of doing things right in that moment based on the situation at hand.

Another pet peeve is the movement to go away from saying words like 'baseline' and 'on the floor' during and after calling fouls. You mean that simple words to communicate what happened on a foul or where to put the ball in play are now wrong? I've only heard and used the word 'baseline' as a player and official for 40 years. Now it's verboten?

It's absurd.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 09, 2011, 10:49am
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Originally Posted by jkumpire View Post
No. But to me it is rather frustrating that as I read the question someone was so unsure of what to do with a whistle during a game he needed to get advice about it. It seemed to me he felt like if he had it out he was wrong, and should have kept it in, or visa versa.

Maybe I'm misreading things, but it seems to me that these days in basketball and in other sports officials are being told there is only one right way to do things, only one right place to stand, only one right way to signal. And I immediately revolt at such thinking these days.

It just goes along with "best practices" or "continuous improvement plans" and all sorts of other things in our society today that demand we do everything exactly the same, instead of doing things right in that moment based on the situation at hand.

Another pet peeve is the movement to go away from saying words like 'baseline' and 'on the floor' during and after calling fouls. You mean that simple words to communicate what happened on a foul or where to put the ball in play are now wrong? I've only heard and used the word 'baseline' as a player and official for 40 years. Now it's verboten?

It's absurd.
This may make sense in baseball (I have no idea as I don't work baseball) but in basketball consistency between a crew is pretty important. I don't want to be guessing what my partner means by some obscure signal that isn't in the book. "On the floor" is absurd, in my opinion. If we were all allowed to free-form it, we would all look silly out there and we should be the ones on the court who just flow together like a well oiled machine. I don't want to guess what my partner means. I want us all to use the same mechanics. I don't think it's absurd to feel that way.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 09, 2011, 10:54am
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This may make sense in baseball (I have no idea as I don't work baseball) but in basketball consistency between a crew is pretty important. I don't want to be guessing what my partner means by some obscure signal that isn't in the book. "On the floor" is absurd, in my opinion. If we were all allowed to free-form it, we would all look silly out there and we should be the ones on the court who just flow together like a well oiled machine. I don't want to guess what my partner means. I want us all to use the same mechanics. I don't think it's absurd to feel that way.
True! Afterall, since when did a shooter have to "leave the floor" to be in their habitual shooting motion?
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 09, 2011, 11:08am
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My partners this year have had a habit of using the insipid foul tip signal on blocked shots. I couldn't bear to watch what one used when calling a "reach." There are some things we can deviate on (like whether to put your whistle in on the first of two FTs, what brand of shoes to wear, or how you throw the opening tip), but when you start deviating from the norm just because compliance goes against your nature, then we look like tools out there.
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Old Fri Dec 09, 2011, 11:11am
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And I don't give a crap about "baseline" or "call timeout", but "on the floor" perpetuates a myth just like calling "over the back" or "reach" or signaling a travel when a thrower leaves his three foot spot.
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