Whistle in or out during free throws?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by jkumpire

With all due respect to so many other great officials on this board and posting on this topic, the rule of thumb should be: "Fiasco, do what you think is right in that situation. You are the official calling the game, not us. Ultimately, in or out isn't going to matter that much, as long as you can use it at the right time to make a call."

If we are at the point as officials where we have to have instructions or suggestions about when to have a whistle in our mouth and when not to, then maybe we need to reevaluate your work as an official. And if FED or anyone else gets to that point, then I hope someone somewhere seriously begins to 'question authority' about it.

Are you serious? Fiasco asked the question, are you suggesting we (collectively) shouldn't have answered?

[Adam]

I used to stand on the block for the first, I don't anymore because we were told not to. I don't get quite as deep and wide as for the second, but I get OOB and out of the extended lane area.

I used to keep my whistle out on the first of two because I wouldn't need it. After my experience last week of forgetting to put it back in, I'm keeping the whistle in at all times.

[Loudwhistle2]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I used to stand on the block for the first, I don't anymore because we were told not to. I don't get quite as deep and wide as for the second, but I get OOB and out of the extended lane area.

I used to keep my whistle out on the first of two because I wouldn't need it. After my experience last week of forgetting to put it back in, I'm keeping the whistle in at all times.

ditto

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Are you serious? Fiasco asked the question, are you suggesting we (collectively) shouldn't have answered?

Yeah, I wasn't offended by any of the answers. In fact, I thought they were all good. I need to keep my whistle in and just learn how not to bring subs in when they shouldn't come in.

[jkumpire]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Are you serious? Fiasco asked the question, are you suggesting we (collectively) shouldn't have answered?

No. But to me it is rather frustrating that as I read the question someone was so unsure of what to do with a whistle during a game he needed to get advice about it. It seemed to me he felt like if he had it out he was wrong, and should have kept it in, or visa versa.

Maybe I'm misreading things, but it seems to me that these days in basketball and in other sports officials are being told there is only one right way to do things, only one right place to stand, only one right way to signal. And I immediately revolt at such thinking these days.

It just goes along with "best practices" or "continuous improvement plans" and all sorts of other things in our society today that demand we do everything exactly the same, instead of doing things right in that moment based on the situation at hand.

Another pet peeve is the movement to go away from saying words like 'baseline' and 'on the floor' during and after calling fouls. You mean that simple words to communicate what happened on a foul or where to put the ball in play are now wrong? I've only heard and used the word 'baseline' as a player and official for 40 years. Now it's verboten?

It's absurd.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by jkumpire

No. But to me it is rather frustrating that as I read the question someone was so unsure of what to do with a whistle during a game he needed to get advice about it. It seemed to me he felt like if he had it out he was wrong, and should have kept it in, or visa versa.

Maybe I'm misreading things, but it seems to me that these days in basketball and in other sports officials are being told there is only one right way to do things, only one right place to stand, only one right way to signal. And I immediately revolt at such thinking these days.

It just goes along with "best practices" or "continuous improvement plans" and all sorts of other things in our society today that demand we do everything exactly the same, instead of doing things right in that moment based on the situation at hand.

Another pet peeve is the movement to go away from saying words like 'baseline' and 'on the floor' during and after calling fouls. You mean that simple words to communicate what happened on a foul or where to put the ball in play are now wrong? I've only heard and used the word 'baseline' as a player and official for 40 years. Now it's verboten?

It's absurd.

This may make sense in baseball (I have no idea as I don't work baseball) but in basketball consistency between a crew is pretty important. I don't want to be guessing what my partner means by some obscure signal that isn't in the book. "On the floor" is absurd, in my opinion. If we were all allowed to free-form it, we would all look silly out there and we should be the ones on the court who just flow together like a well oiled machine. I don't want to guess what my partner means. I want us all to use the same mechanics. I don't think it's absurd to feel that way.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Smitty

This may make sense in baseball (I have no idea as I don't work baseball) but in basketball consistency between a crew is pretty important. I don't want to be guessing what my partner means by some obscure signal that isn't in the book. "On the floor" is absurd, in my opinion. If we were all allowed to free-form it, we would all look silly out there and we should be the ones on the court who just flow together like a well oiled machine. I don't want to guess what my partner means. I want us all to use the same mechanics. I don't think it's absurd to feel that way.

True! Afterall, since when did a shooter have to "leave the floor" to be in their habitual shooting motion?

[Adam]

My partners this year have had a habit of using the insipid foul tip signal on blocked shots. I couldn't bear to watch what one used when calling a "reach." There are some things we can deviate on (like whether to put your whistle in on the first of two FTs, what brand of shoes to wear, or how you throw the opening tip), but when you start deviating from the norm just because compliance goes against your nature, then we look like tools out there.

[Adam]

And I don't give a crap about "baseline" or "call timeout", but "on the floor" perpetuates a myth just like calling "over the back" or "reach" or signaling a travel when a thrower leaves his three foot spot.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

And I don't give a crap about "baseline" or "call timeout", but "on the floor" perpetuates a myth just like calling "over the back" or "reach" or signaling a travel when a thrower leaves his three foot spot.

Yep, exactly. "Baseline" means exactly the same thing as "endline".

I hate when partners say "On the floor" and look like they're counting a made basket. I also have partners say "over the back" and "reach" when they're verbalizing fouls.

[jkumpire]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

And I don't give a crap about "baseline" or "call timeout", but "on the floor" perpetuates a myth just like calling "over the back" or "reach" or signaling a travel when a thrower leaves his three foot spot.

What myth?

A drives to the goal. B rides A's hip with his hand and uses it to push A away from the lane as A starts to drive.

I call a foul on B for pushing A, and after my whistle blows A takes two steps and then shoots the ball, which goes in.

I call the foul, clearly before the next two steps and shot, and now you tell me it's wrong to communicate the foul was committed on the floor before A finished the drive and took a shot?

The second I go out and sell the call as 'on the floor' I have now told the coaches, teams and crowd that there was no shot, the ball was dead two steps before A put the ball up, and the basket doesn't count. To say there is something wrong with that I just can't understand. Using those words are just part of the way to sell the call, along with proper signals to make sure it's clear.

Yes, the words have to be used carefully, and I understand they can be misused by officials who should call the 2 shot foul instead of the common foul on the floor. But again, I state my point, this is another case where we are being forced into a one size fits all way to officiate, and it is not a good thing.

How many times have seen over the years where rule, interp, or mechanic Z is taught as being the best way to do things, then six months later the opposite is now considered to be the best way to do things?

All that matters as an official is to get the call right, referee the players, and give both sides an equal chance to win the game. How you do that is not a "one size fits all" proposition.

Now I'll just go back to lurking.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

My partners this year have had a habit of using the insipid foul tip signal on blocked shots.

A whole lot of really good college officials use this "insipid" mechanic. You seem a tad cranky this morning.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by fiasco

A whole lot of really good college officials use this "insipid" mechanic. You seem a tad cranky this morning.

The "really good college officials" use the signal AFTER the play to tell the coach why there wasn't a foul (or something else).

Too many "not so good HS officials" use it DURING the play and then run the risk of a partner blowing his/her whistle for the foul on the play.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by fiasco

A whole lot of really good college officials use this "insipid" mechanic. You seem a tad cranky this morning.

It's bound to get you in trouble, IMO, as soon as you start giving that signal while your partner is calling a foul. I've also seen some good college officials use the travel signal on a throw-in violation, doesn't make it any less dumb.

Though I might be a bit cranky.