|
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Rate Thread | Display Modes |
|
|||
Quote:
Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
|
|||
There's a lot of good stuff in this thread, so I'm going to just add my two cents to a couple of other people's excellent comments.
I agree with this 100%. BY RULE, contact that does not hinder a player from performing normal movements is NOT a foul. That's specifically written in the rules. The patient whistle often (not always, but often) gives you an extra half-second to determine if that little bump gave either player an advantage not intended by rule. Quote:
I agree with this 100%. If the contact impacts the play, then it's a foul. But a small bump that causes a freshman girl to travel will not even be felt by a college senior on his way to dunking the ball. One is a foul, one is not. A patient whistle allows you to determine which one is NOT the foul. |
|
|||
Quote:
The suggestion that these concepts are "ruining the game" is beyond silly to me. They are good concepts and the way games on all levels should be officiated IMO. But you also must recognize that the level of contact needed to impact a play differs based on the relative skill level, strength, and body control at various levels. What really ruins games, at least for me, is officials that constantly have whistles on marginal contact that does not create an advantage. Not only does it ruin the flow of the game, it also does a disservice to player development as kids come to expect to be bailed out by a whistle rather than learn how to play through marginal contact that inevitably occurs as they move up to higher levels of play. |
|
|||
Fascinating thread.
Couple of thoughts from a newer official who refs mostly girls/boys JV. 1. Our state association administrator for basketball has clearly stated that the #1 complaint she hears is too FEW fouls are being called. She does not believe that foul calls are game interrupters, in fact she dislikes the term a great deal. She believes that the more contact we pass on, particularly early in a game, the greater chance of rough play later. 2. I played HS ball about a jillion years ago. The game is substantially rougher in two areas: post play and boxing out. |
|
|||
Quote:
Of course they all think that not enough are called on the OTHER team. Funny how that works. |
|
|||
Quote:
Same holds true for male vs female games. Had a JUCO coach begging for a ticky tack, he told me "that's a foul!" I said you are absolutely correct... if this were a 8th grade girls game. All he could do was laugh & we were good the rest of the night. A 6'8" is not disadvantaged by the same contact that a 5'6" is.
__________________
I gotta new attitude! |
|
|||
Quote:
Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
|
|||
Quote:
Now, in a clear blowout I will pass on some "and-1s" that may have otherwise been called. Some people may have a problem with this but I think it's a part of game management and common sense. Even as a strong supporter of the patient whistle concept, I recognize that we HAVE to protect shooters regardless of whether or not the ball went in. I just have a big beef with whistles on marginal contact. I think that some officials truly don't understand the concept of advantage/disadvantage which IMO is the basis for the patient whistle philosophy. When I posted in this thread yesterday I was thinking of the JV game I watched before my V game on Tuesday. They were in the double bonus both ways right after the start of the 4th quarter and it was not really a physical game. They just had what IMO were a lot of bad calls on marginal contact. I'm all for whistles that protect shooters, clean up post play, and get defenders hands off of ball handlers on the perimeter. I'm even sort of chomping at the bit to get a good "bumping a cutter" call here based on what I've seen in some of the scrimmages I did a few weeks ago. But again, I think understanding what concepts like "patient whistle" and "seeing the whole play" mean and how they should be applied is important to good officiating at all levels of play. |
|
|||
Quote:
Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
|
|||
An Al Battista Reference !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BNR -
Thanks for bring up the only guy in the country that knows Fed and the NCAA rule book verbatim and can quote each and every rule by heart......... He is the best !!!!!!! |
|
|||
Having a "patient whistle" and "seeing the play start, develop, & finish" are concepts that should be used at all levels......HOWEVER, it seems that too many people are confused about HOW to apply these principles.
IT IS NOT to wait and see if the contact caused an advantage/disadvantage situation (that was called the Tower Philosophy of officiating - which was used by officials previously). The classic example is, B1 contacts/bumps A1 during a shot attempt and the calling official waits to see if the shot is missed BEFORE deciding to blow the whistle. In essence, it's only called a foul IF the shot is missed. Or, the illegal screen is only called IF the ball handler gets a clear scoring opportunity because of the illegal contact. The Tower Philosophy gave rise to the "a foul is a foul" concept. Call the foul when it occurs regardless of whether the shot is made or not. IMHO, officials moved too quickly in calling fouls (with the "foul is a foul" concept in mind) BEFORE they saw the whole play or saw the impact of the contact. The concept of "start, develop, finish" (which has NBA roots) allows an official to see the contact that occurs in a play and categorize it into 1 of 3 areas: incidental contact; marginal contact; contact that warrants a foul. Obviously, incidental contact is nothing....contact that warrants a foul gets a whistle. It's the marginal contact area where tougher decisions are made (and the real crux of what we're talking about). At the NCAA-M level, officials are to assess if contact hinders the rythm, speed, balance, & quickness of a player (shooter, dribbler, cutter, defender, etc) - then that contact is deemed to be a foul. You can only accurately assess the play when you see the WHOLE play. That doesn't mean you wait until a shot is missed - if the contact interrupts the shooters RSBQ (rythm, speed, etc....), then you have a foul whether the shot goes in or not. In conclusion, it's not the philosophy of "start, develop, finish" or "patient whistle" that is ruining the game. The incorrect practical application of these concepts (i.e. think they're supposed to wait and see if the shot is missed before they call a foul) by some officials that is leading to a more physical game. The solution is to see the whole play, categorize the contact, and officiate accordingly. |
|
||||
You know, I've been doing this for 25 years now and I really believe this is an incorrect description of the Tower Philosophy. Whether the shot goes in or not has never been part of it, at least the way it's been taught to me and the way I've taught others.
|
Bookmarks |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | Rate This Thread |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
OT: Calling the official a "hater" and "loser" | bainsey | Basketball | 35 | Wed Sep 14, 2011 03:53pm |
ABC's "Nightline" examines "worst calls ever" tonight | pizanno | Basketball | 27 | Fri Jul 04, 2008 06:08am |
Can "FOUL" be made "FAIR"? | PAT THE REF | Baseball | 60 | Sat Feb 24, 2007 09:01pm |