A time out with a twist.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

How many times have we heard a player say, "Time out. I need to tie my shoe", during a clock stopped, dead ball. Do we always charge the time out because the words, "time out", were stated?

That seems to me to be a different play -- one in which the TO is NOT granted in the first place.

Given that it was granted in the OP, with out being called for an injury (at the time), I think it needs to stand.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

How many times have we heard a player say, "Time out. I need to tie my shoe", during a clock stopped, dead ball. Do we always charge the time out because the words, "time out", were stated?

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

That seems to me to be a different play -- one in which the TO is NOT granted in the first place.

First of all, in a real game, I'm not charging a timeout in this situation. I'm just telling him to tie his shoe.

Secondly, by the book, why is the timeout not granted in this case. Clock stopped. Dead ball. What rule prevents an official from granting a timeout here.

[tjones1]

From the OP, I think the timeout should stand.

I've never seen a player who is truly hurt request a timeout - they typically are more worried about what's wrong with them and know the officials will shut it down.

[Adam]

I wouldn't make a habit of doing it, but I've got no problem with retracting the TO in an isolated case. If I do, the player has to be replaced, however.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

First of all, in a real game, I'm not charging a timeout in this situation. I'm just telling him to tie his shoe.

Secondly, by the book, why is the timeout not granted in this case. Clock stopped. Dead ball. What rule prevents an official from granting a timeout here.

When a kid says "time out I need to tie my shoe" s/he's not really requesting a Time Out as defined in the rules.

Sometimes you (the generic "you") need a little common sense to officiate.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob Jenkins

When a kid says "time out I need to tie my shoe" he's not really requesting a Time Out as defined in the rules.

To reiterate, in a real game, I'm not going to charge a timeout to a player who simply wants to tie his shoe.

However, "as defined in the rules", how is a player in this situation not "defined" as requesting a timeout.

From NFHS Rule 5: "Time-out occurs and the clock, if running, shall be stopped when an official: Grants a player’s request for a time-out, such request being granted only when: The ball is dead, unless replacement of a disqualified, or injured player(s),or a player directed to leave the game is pending, and a substitute(s) is available and required."

Also: "Exception: No time-out is charged if: the player’s request results from displaced eyeglasses, or lens."

The NFHS has a rule that officials don't charge a timeout when a player requests a timeout to deal with eyeglasses. The NFHS doesn't make an exception for such a request in the case of an untied shoe, or an injury.

Common sense tells me to not charge a timeout for eyeglasses, untied shoes, or injuries, but the rules, by the book, don't seem to back that up. And, by the way, these are all realistic game situations. In thirty years I've had dozens of players, from middle school, up to high school varsity, request a timeout for eyeglasses, untied shoes, or injuries, actually using the word, "Timeout", and in none of those cases did I charge that player's team with a timeout.

[bob jenkins]

When a player says "Time Out, I need to tie my shoes" what s/he means is "wait a second, I need to tie my shoes."

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob Jenkins

When a player says "Time Out, I need to tie my shoes" what s/he means is "wait a second, I need to tie my shoes."

Agreed. Same thing for displaced eyeglasses, or contact lenses, and, as this thread discusses, maybe the same thing for an injury.

However, the rulebook only addresses eyeglasses, and contact lenses. The rulebook also states that an officials must apply the intent and purpose of the rules, and that, with a little bit of 2-3 thrown in for good measure, will give common sense, "real game", officials all the direction that they need.

[bob jenkins]

The rule says (or means) "A TO, if granted, is not charged to the team if it was for glasses."

It says NOTHING about not granting a "TO" if it's just for a shoe (or that matter for glasses) during the type of plays.

IOW, the player's statement is not a request under 5-8-3, but rather for a delay in 5-8-2c.