9-9-2?

Freddy · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 24, 2011, 12:44pm

Rule 9-9-2: "While in player and team control in its backcourt, a player shall not cause the ball to go from backcourt to frontcourt and return to backcourt, without the ball touching a player in the frontcourt, such that he/she or a teammate is the first to touch it in the backcourt."

I've been trying to get my head around possible situations prohibited by this rule. The casebook has none to clarify. Other than "the backcourt player's pass hitting the leg of an official in the frontcourt then going back..." (previous thread's sitch), can you suggest any other possible situation?

stiffler3492 · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 24, 2011, 12:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy

Rule 9-9-2: "While in player and team control in its backcourt, a player shall not cause the ball to go from backcourt to frontcourt and return to backcourt, without the ball touching a player in the frontcourt, such that he/she or a teammate is the first to touch it in the backcourt."

I've been trying to get my head around possible situations prohibited by this rule. The casebook has none to clarify. Can you suggest one or some?

A1 receives the inbounds pass to begin a quarter. He catches the ball standing just a couple of feet from the division line. The defense has set up below the top of the key.

To start his dribble, he tosses the ball forward, with backspin on it, so that the ball hits the floor in the frontcourt, spins back to the backcourt, and he continues dribbling.

That is of course, if you consider this move a fumble and not a pass to himself.

bob jenkins · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 24, 2011, 12:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by stiffler3492

To start his dribble, he tosses the ball forward, with backspin on it, so that the ball hits the floor in the frontcourt, spins back to the backcourt, and he continues dribbling.

That's a dribble -- so it's legal.

You could have a pass from (near) one side of the court to (near) the other that bounces in the FC and is released by and caught by players in the BC.

APG · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 24, 2011, 01:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by stiffler3492

That is of course, if you consider this move a fumble and not a pass to himself.

It's impossible to pass the ball to oneself.

stiffler3492 · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 24, 2011, 01:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

It's impossible to pass the ball to oneself.

You know what I mean

JRutledge · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 24, 2011, 01:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by stiffler3492

You know what I mean

To be fair I would not know what you are talking about as many people say this as an explanation as a violation.

Peace

stiffler3492 · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 24, 2011, 01:28pm

Oh fine, don't have my books to get the exact rule reference...but A1 can't recover his own pass, correct?

billyu2 · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 24, 2011, 01:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy

Rule 9-9-2: "While in player and team control in its backcourt, a player shall not cause the ball to go from backcourt to frontcourt and return to backcourt, without the ball touching a player in the frontcourt, such that he/she or a teammate is the first to touch it in the backcourt."

I've been trying to get my head around possible situations prohibited by this rule. The casebook has none to clarify. Other than "the backcourt player's pass hitting the leg of an official in the frontcourt then going back..." (previous thread's sitch), can you suggest any other possible situation?

A1 in the backcourt passes and the ball hits an official inbounds in the front court. The ball bounces back into backcourt and is first touched by a Team A player.

Freddy · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 24, 2011, 03:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy

Rule 9-9-2: "While in player and team control in its backcourt, a player shall not cause the ball to go from backcourt to frontcourt and return to backcourt, without the ball touching a player in the frontcourt, such that he/she or a teammate is the first to touch it in the backcourt."

I've been trying to get my head around possible situations prohibited by this rule. The casebook has none to clarify. Other than "the backcourt player's pass hitting the leg of an official in the frontcourt then going back..." (previous thread's sitch), can you suggest any other possible situation?

Okay, having once again studied all previous threads on this topic, would this be a correct statement?:

"Since 9-9-1 was revised in order to accomodate the new rule stipulating team control during a throw-in ("The change primarily affects how foul penalties will be administered"), the Casebook situation 9.9.1.C.a trumps the unfortunate phraseology of the new 9-9-1 when, say, backcourt A1's pass touches frontcourt A2 (no player control) and goes back to backcourt where A1 resumes control; this a backcourt violation."

Is that a correct statement for that sort of backcourt-to-frontcourt-to-backcourt situation?

Scratch85 · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 24, 2011, 05:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy

Okay, having once again studied all previous threads on this topic, would this be a correct statement?:

"Since 9-9-1 was revised in order to accomodate the new rule stipulating team control during a throw-in ("The change primarily affects how foul penalties will be administered"), the Casebook situation 9.9.1.C.a trumps the unfortunate phraseology of the new 9-9-1 when, say, backcourt A1's pass touches frontcourt A2 (no player control) and goes back to backcourt where A1 resumes control; this a backcourt violation."

Is that a correct statement for that sort of backcourt-to-frontcourt-to-backcourt situation?

9.9.1C in the 2010-2011 case book reads, "the ball was in control of Team A." in the 2011-2012 case book it reads "the ball was in control of A1 and Team A."

I don't know what to make of that. If they mean the ball was but no longer is in control of A1, then the ball could not have been in player and team control in the frontcourt. If they mean the ball was and still is in control of A1 during the pass, . . . I'm going to be really confused.

The use of the word "While" in 9-9-2 makes that whole rule seem impossible.

Right now, I am going with Freddy's assessment that case book trumps poorly written rule book.

My association has been very slow to discuss this. I hope we get it figured out before season starts.

Toren · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 24, 2011, 05:18pm

[QUOTE=Freddy;795648]Rule 9-9-2: "While in player and team control in its backcourt, a player shall not cause the ball to go from backcourt to frontcourt and return to backcourt, without the ball touching a player in the frontcourt, such that he/she or a teammate is the first to touch it in the backcourt."

The first few times I read the rule it seemed to give me issues. The rule is worded strangely, but it breaks down fairly simply...I think.

So if player A1 in the backcourt with player control, throws a pass to A2, in the front court. And A2 doesn't see the ball coming and it hits off his leg. Now we have team control in the front court. The ball bounces into the backcourt and A3 retrieves it, backcourt violation.

We do not need player and team control in the frontcourt. The rule says we need player and team control in the backcourt.

Scratch85 · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 24, 2011, 05:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toren

We do not need player and team control in the frontcourt. The rule says we need player and team control in the backcourt.

9-9-2 does say "While in player and team control in its backcourt". The play you described happens after being in player and team control in its backcourt but not while.

The only thing I can come up with is if a A1 stopped dribbling and held the ball the ball near the division line while still in his backcourt, then touched the ball to the floor or an official in the frontcourt while his feet remained in the backcourt. Even then I'm feeling confused.

APG · #13 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 24, 2011, 05:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scratch85

9-9-2 does say "While in player and team control in its backcourt". The play you described happens after being in player and team control in its backcourt but not while.

The only thing I can come up with is if a A1 stopped dribbling and held the ball the ball near the division line while still in his backcourt, then touched the ball to the floor or an official in the frontcourt while his feet remained in the backcourt. Even then I'm feeling confused.

I think you're reading too much into the rule (and that's partly cause the rule is poorly worded). We're still going to judge backcourt plays as we always have. The portion about player control was added to try and account for the fact that some plays that were never backcourt violations during and immediately after the throw-in ends, would be violations now if they didn't add the bit about player control.

Scratch85 · #14 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 24, 2011, 05:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

We're still going to judge backcourt plays as we always have.

That's my plan. But I love trying to figure out what they (NFHS) were thinking when they created the new wording. It is hard for me to believe they just didn't know the situation they were creating.

APG · #15 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 24, 2011, 05:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scratch85

That's my plan. But I love trying to figure out what they (NFHS) were thinking when they created the new wording. It is hard for me to believe they just didn't know the situation they were creating.

Sometimes, it's best not to try and think about how the powers that be for the NF come up with it's rules and interpretations. We know that NF's intent and purpose of the rule is to not shoot free throws when the throw-in team commits a foul. Heck, the majority of us are trying to figure out how a backcourt interpretation from a couple of years back that makes little sense.

What I'm guessing will happen is we'll see an editorial change or two over the next couple of years, until the get the wording clear.