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Old Thu Mar 20, 2003, 11:56am
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This happened in our association on the last game of the season, boys freshman, 3 minutes left in the game and the visiting team is up by 16 points, when one of its players gets a breakaway and is intentionally fouled, hard I might add. Lines are cleared for the free throws when all of sudden the free thrower looks at the crowd and taunts them by pointing at the score board and pumping his fist. This of course brought out a very loud chorus of boo's from the fans. The shooter than proceeded to miss the free throw much to the delight of the fans. On the next atempt he repeated his antics and also took the ball in a globe trotter move and rolled it down one arm behind his head and into the other arm. At this point his coach stands up screaming he wants a time out. And the official grants it to him before the shot is away. The coach then will not allow this player to shoot the second shot, he says under no circumstances is he allowing that player back into the game. He even said if you want to T me go ahead, if you give the ball to my opponents thats okay too, but he is not comming back in!!
After a quick confrence the officials gave his team the ball since it was an intential foul, but they gave it to them at half court not at the spot nearest the foul.
I know there were mistakes here and they are obvious, but what about the "unshot" free throw?

[Edited by co2ice on Mar 20th, 2003 at 10:59 AM]
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Old Thu Mar 20, 2003, 12:19pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by co2ice
This happened in our association on the last game of the season, boys freshman, 3 minutes left in the game and the visiting team is up by 16 points, when one of its players gets a breakaway and is intentionally fouled, hard I might add. Lines are cleared for the free throws when all of sudden the free thrower looks at the crowd and taunts them by pointing at the score board and pumping his fist. This of course brought out a very loud chorus of boo's from the fans. The shooter than proceeded to miss the free throw much to the delight of the fans. On the next atempt he repeated his antics and also took the ball in a globe trotter move and rolled it down one arm behind his head and into the other arm. At this point his coach stands up screaming he wants a time out. And the official grants it to him before the shot is away. The coach then will not allow this player to shoot the second shot, he says under no circumstances is he allowing that player back into the game. He even said if you want to T me go ahead, if you give the ball to my opponents thats okay too, but he is not comming back in!!
After a quick confrence the officials gave his team the ball since it was an intential foul, but they gave it to them at half court not at the spot nearest the foul.
I know there were mistakes here and they are obvious, but what about the "unshot" free throw?

[Edited by co2ice on Mar 20th, 2003 at 10:59 AM]
Freshman game? I would tell the coach to bring one of the benchwarmers in for the second shot & to keep the little Meadowlark Lemon on the bench. And then go as normal from there.
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Old Thu Mar 20, 2003, 12:25pm
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Doggonit, Dan. That's exactly what I was going to say! How do you do that?!?!
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Old Thu Mar 20, 2003, 12:38pm
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While I agree with the concept of getting it over with as posted above. I'm afraid I have to T-up "Meadowlark" on the first taunt, and if he still did it the second time...he's gone. That is clearly unsportsmanlike and should be nipped in the bud. If not, he will only get worse in his conduct.
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Old Thu Mar 20, 2003, 12:39pm
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As others have posted, let the coach bring in a sub and sit the little showoff on the bench. Too bad we don't have more coaches like this one. I might even allow this in a varsity game considering the situation and score (although I think I might just "T" the kid for unsportsmanlike instead). If anyone questioned me later, I'd just say it was "in the best interest of maintaining control."

Z
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Old Thu Mar 20, 2003, 12:40pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by zebraman
If anyone questioned me later, I'd just say it was "in the best interest of maintaining control."
You could just say that he tripped and injured himself on the way back to the bench for the TO.
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Old Thu Mar 20, 2003, 01:00pm
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Seems pretty simple to me. Whack the kid the first time he taunts the crowd. He shoots free throws, we go to the other end and shoot the technical free throws and Team B gets the ball at half court. End of story. I don't care if it's a freshman game or not. There's no place for that in the game.
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Old Thu Mar 20, 2003, 01:16pm
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I think we're missing the point. The main question of this post is what should we do if a coach refuses to allow a player to shoot his second free throw for whatever reason, not what we would have done earlier in the sequence.

As we all know, by rule, unless the player is injured, he must make the attempt. Again, strictly by the rules, if the coach "stops the game" in this manner, it would be a forfeit.

Now, having said that, here's what I would do. I would tell the coach that, although I shared his disgust, the consequence of this particular action would result in a forfeit, and my suggestion would be to let him shoot the second shot, then take him out and do whatever you wanted to do to him (short of execution) after that. That way, I am not forced to declare a forfeit and the coach can still discipline the player.

And yeah, I think something should have been called earlier - at least a warning (unofficial) if nothing else.
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Old Thu Mar 20, 2003, 01:19pm
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Hey co2ice. good to know you are still around. Sorry I missed you at the purple palace. Worked the 4A semis (Box Elder and Orem). 3 years in a row that I got to the semis and can't seem to get a final. Bummer. It was great seeing/talking to you at Mtn Crest.

I agree with the others. Think about the sportsmanship speech we give at the start of every game...just punish the act. If the kid decides to do it again...throw his @$$ out. It is really as simple as that.
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Old Thu Mar 20, 2003, 01:56pm
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co2ice--to answer your question directly !!.The answer is very simple if you follow the rules. Following the timeout, use the resuming of play procedure, if the player (and he is still a player till substituted for-which you will not allow till the free throw sequence is completed) is not in the circle when you are ready to adminster the free throw, it is a violation after 10 seconds. Since this is the second free throw, end of free throw(s). Then coach can sub for the player (even though he has not yet returned to the court). You may in fact tell the coach what will happen ahead of time---after all, this is what he wants.
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Old Thu Mar 20, 2003, 03:37pm
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Great responses and thanks, this was not my game just one I heard about. HEY PADGETT: That picture of Gomer reminds me of the time Stripes evaluated me. P.S. I'm the tall one!!
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Old Fri Mar 21, 2003, 02:08pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Padgett
I think we're missing the point. The main question of this post is what should we do if a coach refuses to allow a player to shoot his second free throw for whatever reason, not what we would have done earlier in the sequence.

As we all know, by rule, unless the player is injured, he must make the attempt. Again, strictly by the rules, if the coach "stops the game" in this manner, it would be a forfeit.

Now, having said that, here's what I would do. I would tell the coach that, although I shared his disgust, the consequence of this particular action would result in a forfeit, and my suggestion would be to let him shoot the second shot, then take him out and do whatever you wanted to do to him (short of execution) after that. That way, I am not forced to declare a forfeit and the coach can still discipline the player.

And yeah, I think something should have been called earlier - at least a warning (unofficial) if nothing else.

Given a coach that was trying to do the right thing, I would certaily rattle my marbles to find some way to oblige him. I disagree that the only choice is let him shoot or forfeit.

If the coach wants him out that bad, you could agree with him, charge the flagrant T and give the other team the ball.

Also, you could advise the coach to have his team remain in the timeout huddle, administer the FT under the resuming play procedure by setting the ball on the FT line, and call a violation when it isn't taken within 10 seconds. If the shooter steps out there to take it...violation when he enters the circle.

We can certainly be creative enough to work with coach that is willing to give points and possesion to discipline bad behavior without going to a forfeit.
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Old Sat Mar 22, 2003, 03:29am
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My first thought was use the resuming play procedure and call a free throw violation. I applaud the coach for addressing the behavior. I also have to criticize the officials for not.
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Old Sat Mar 22, 2003, 03:44am
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With FIBA rules: "the referee shall have the power to make decisions on any point not specifically covered by these rules". Does this rule appear in your rulebooks too?
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Old Sat Mar 22, 2003, 11:01am
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Isn't taunting a one-strike and you're out foul according to FED? Call it and toss him, then the coach gets his wish because the sub has to shoot the throws.

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