Help with a call that keeps bothering me?

[fletch_irwin_m]

As a former coach and (still) ground bound player, have you heard of a charge? It seems to me you are in GREAT defensive position in transition. Instead of trying to block the shot, why not take the slide and take the charge? To be cynical you still have the possibility of having a foul called against you if you are their late, BUT you have the possibility of creating a foul for the other team AND avoiding a three point play.
JMHO

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Benzbmr
Sorry Chuck, don't feel comfortable letting all the Refs know I'm complaining about them. No offense intended by that remark, just not comfortable with it.

No sweat. Certainly no offense taken. That's actually probably a very wise decision. I was just curious b/c as you may have guessed by some of the posts here, I officiate at the D3 level in MA. And I also didn't take your original post to be complaining.

Here are a couple of thoughts. First, different officials have different philosophies about the play you describe. Some officials believe that once the ball has left the shooter's hand, if the defender blocks the ball cleanly, then any minimal contact with the shooter is incidental. Therefore, no foul.

Other officials believe in "protecting the shooter" the entire time he's in the air, even if the shot has been released. Therefore, if the defender makes contact (and especially if the shooter falls down after the contact), it's a foul, even if he blocked the shot cleanly.

Both of these philosophies are widely accepted, and that makes it hard for players to know which way it's going to be called in that particular game.

The other thing to keep in mind is that even at the college level (and this is primarily true at the D3 level), you will get officials of differing ability and experience. Some officials have been doing college ball for 20 years and are used to the pace and size of the players and some are relatively new to college ball, perhaps seeing only a few JV or juco games in the past. Newer officials can be surprised by what the college athletes are able to do (I'm speaking from the experience of my first year) or are intimidated by the intensity of the games. These factors can also make it difficult for the players to know how the game will be called.

So where does that leave you? I guess I would suggest that you work at being adaptable. I'm sorry if that sounds overly simplistic. But it may just come down to the fact that you will have to observe how the three officials on the floor that night are calling that play. And then adjust your game accordingly. As long as the officials are consistent, you will stay out of trouble.

Good luck in the rest of your season!

Chuck

[stripes]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

No, it doesn't. An airborne shooter is still in the acto shooting until he returns to the floor. So, if you contact him before he returns to the floor, it's a foul.

Not in the NCAA. There is no airborne shooter under these rules.

[Lotto]

Originally posted by stripes

Not in the NCAA. There is no airborne shooter under these rules.

Unless it's a women's game.

[stripes]

Originally posted by Lotto

Unless it's a women's game.

My bad. i meant to write that. Thanks for clarifying.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Lotto

Unless it's a women's game.

Even in the Men's game a shooter who has released the ball and is fouled while in the air is still considered in the act of shooting.

The only difference is whether a foul BY the shooter is a PC foul or not.

[Tim Roden]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Tim,I know that you probably didn't mean it the way that it's written above,but you just did Chuck a very bad dis-service.You're using the wrong guy completely to try and illustrate your point.People that have worked with Chuck have posted that he's extremely quick and nimble-of-foot.A lack of hustle and bad positioning definitely aren't illustrative of Chuck's oficiating ability.You don't get asked to do two-man semi-pro ball,like Chuck,if you can't run and get into position.

The point that you are trying to make might be OK,but your way of illustrating it was completely wrong,IMHO.

I'm sure Chuck is not the person always getting it wrong. But the point is, even I get it wrong by not being in the right position. I still have some quickness in these feet and that sometimes gets me into trouble because I will get straightlined and have no idea what to call. But if DIII officials up there are like DIII down here. They may look good. Have good Mechanics. Work hard. But are inconsistant because they don't get the right position on a fast break and they don't trust their partners have a call.

[Hawks Coach]

IMO, the advice to take the charge is not taking into account what you say has happened. You cannot force the pass and get back to the block in time to take the charge. It will be a block every time. And you can't wait in the block because you need to force the first player to pick up the ball - STOP BALL first, right? So what do you do?

If I am coaching you and you are getting 50% of the calls, AND you aren't doing other acts to get into serious foul trouble, I want you to continue what you are doing. You sound like an athletic player who is trying to make a play in a sure scoring situation for the offense. If you get ball all the time, get half the calls, the worst we have is a player who had a lay-up but is now taking FTs. They won't make all of these FTs in all likelihood, and more than 50% of the time you get credit for a block. So we took an automatic and reduced it to a 1/4 or 1/3 scoring opportunity - I like those odds.

However. . . If the rest of your game leads you into foul trouble on a regular basis (and you start or play serious minutes that I need you for), you probably can't afford a 50-50 call like this. Your potential foul far outwieghs your potential blocked shot. So it really depends on the rest of your game what you do in this situation. If you tend to get benched for fouls, then you may want to fake the block attempt, hope to force a missed lay-up, and go for the rebound.