Yelling (can't think of a better title)

[devdog69]

quote:

Originally posted by rockyroad
but if they're smart they will know the rules don't support calling a T...



I disagree, the rules require us as officials to interpret each situation and whether they fit the spirit and intent of a particular rule is our judgement. I have T'd a kid for yelling this season, two of them were going for a loose ball the other kid gained control of it and the defender gave an "aaaarrrrrggghhhhh" at the top of his lungs right in the kids face. Whack! As I told the coach, that is CLEARLY unsportsmanlike. I don't know how any reasonable sane person can view it otherwise. Now, am I going to T some girl for yelling ball, ball, ball? Probably not, but it's possible if the situation was such that I deem it unsportsmanlike, it's a T.

[Edited by devdog69 on Feb 14th, 2003 at 10:29 AM]

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by rockyroad

Easy there big fella...Hawks Coach has been around this board for a looooonnnngggg time...as far as class and sportsmanship go, you won't find many on this board with more of either one than Hawks has - except maybe Jurassic Ref (sportsmanship anyway )... and just because the clinician has been teaching for 30 years doesn't mean he's right...as has been said, there is no rules basis for calling a T in this situation...a quick word to the player and the coach will usually stop it, but if they're smart they will know the rules don't support calling a T...

Thanks for the kind words,Rocky. Did I get marked down on the "class" part for being "persnickety"? Or is it because all of my class just happens to be "second"?

Btw,I certainly agree with your assessment of Hawks Coach.As for the "clinician" statement,I've been a clinician,too,and I still train officials-but I've certainly had my butt handed to me on this Forum a few times by some pretty knowledgeable officials when I've screwed up a rule,or it's application.We never stop learning-any of us!You're also right on about the rules not supporting a T in this instance.The only possible scenario that I can think of where a T might be possible is if the yelling was combined with obscenities,or some form of taunting.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by w_sohl

not specifically, but they do support the official making a judgement call on the issue...

I think that the smartest thing that you could do in this particular case is run this one by your local rules interpreter/assigner/clinician/whatever to see how they would like it handled.You definitely do not want to be the only one in your area calling it one way,while everyone else is calling it differently. JMHO.

[Dan_ref]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ChuckElias
[B]

Originally posted by mick
Chuck,


Interestingly, while playing soccer in HS, a ball got kicked straight up in the air. My baseball instincts kicked in and I yelled "I got it!"...
Chuck

...and his baseball skills kicked in & he dropped it

[RecRef]

FWIW - Here is my 2 cents on this. Since there is nothing specific in the rules covering it I would be hesitant to call a T for Ball, Ball, Ball. Even the warning could be considered out of line with the rules.

All this being said I did have a similar situation years back where I did flagrant T a girl. She would scream in the situations we are talking about. No words but just screaming. I did tell her that she should play ball and cut the theatrics but it was to no avail. I had to calm the opposing coach over the situation at one point. Where the line was crossed is when she screamed at the top of her lungs a few (very few) inches from, and directed to, the ear of the dribbler. As I told her coach this had now become a safety issue and I was not going to jeopardize anyone’s hearing. To his credit all he said was OK.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
...and his baseball skills kicked in & he dropped it

Nuh-uh! I was your classic "great glove/no stick" 2nd baseman. Of course, when I caught the "fly ball" on the soccer field, nobody was very happy. . .

Chuck

[stripes]

It is interesting to me that this topic has generated 4 pages of responses and still no one has been able (in my mind anyway) to show justification, by rule, to call at T. Only interpretive variations (of 10.3.8 ) have been cited, buy IMO this is a big stretch. I agree that all this yelling is annoying, but it is allowed. You may not like it, it may give you a headache, but it simply isn't prohibited.

Someone posted about a defender right in the ball handler's face yelling and called a T. Hawks Coach (I believe) maed a very salient point, if it is the realtive distance that matters, where does that distance end? NCAA and NFHS rules are quite clear about several distance related items, 15 ft for a FT, 19' 9" for a 3pt shot, 6 ft closely guarded, etc., but they make no mention of this distance. Do we arbitrarily decide game by game or by the volume of the yeller? Where does this lead us? Will the day come when player's cannot say anything? What about coaches and teammates on the bench? What if they yell loud? What about the fans? Will they have to stop yelling to?

That is the problem with trying to justify this as a T. It is not supported by rule and becomes random enforcement. IMO, not justified and not good for the game.

[w_sohl]

I restate...

I tend to look at the yelling of the word "ball", which by the way is done 90% of the timewhen a dribbler has picked up their dribble, as an indication to their teammates that the ball, from thier perspective, is dead, be aware that a pass may be coming you way soon or come and trap the offensive player. The word shot also is just an indicator to defensive teammates that may have their back to the rim defending a player without the ball that a shot is gone up and it is now time to rebound or flare to the other end for a quick outlet pass. In my situation in an earlier post in this thread the player was beaten, was trailing the play by at least four feet and just screamed at the top of his lungs, not the word shot or ball, just a yell. In my opinion this is very unsporting, was done with the intent to put fear for bodily harm and should be delt with.

[moose69]

had this happen the other night actually, JV quarter final. B is losing bad, A steals the ball, B starts screaming. A1 made the layup. The next dead ball i went over to B1 and asked him if he thought it was very nice, and i asked him how much he'd like it if someone of the other team did that to him while he was trying to make a lay up.

Never heard another yelp from either team for the rest of the game.



TR

[cmckenna]

This is pretty cool.. I have never had 4 replies to any of my posts before never mind 4 pages...

To get back to the basics though... What I stated in the initial post is exactly what w_sohl states below.

Originally posted by w_sohl
In my situation in an earlier post in this thread the player was beaten, was trailing the play by at least four feet and just screamed at the top of his lungs, not the word shot or ball, just a yell.

It was not the words "SHOT" or "BALL" but just a YELL (picture Charlie Brown when Lucy pulls the football away) as loud as can be while running in behind A1 after getting his a$$ burned on the play.

Here's is some things to ponder....

Would you punish a yell like this if it was directed at you after a foul call?? If so, why is it unsporting at that time??

Why don't we allow the non shooting team to yell at the free throw shooter??? Oh... that's right... there is a rule against that.. disconcertion.... What makes this different???

Look at my signature line that I quoted from mick... If this yelling causes A1 to do something in reaction to the yell that causes A1 to be at a disadvantage then we have to call it.... the question is what ??? Perhaps in this case a warning is fine, that's all I was trying to get at is what are the thoughts here... I like the discussion it has generated though.

[rockyroad]

So if I am reading cmckenna and w_sohl correctly, they will T a player for running up behind the shooter and yelling, but it's ok to run up behind the shooter and yell "Shot" or "Ball" because that's normal???? I don't get it...

And Jurassic, I marked you down on class because you never got me that brownpop you owed me from back in December...and I think I need a second one after reading this thread!!!

[mick]

Originally posted by cmckenna
...Look at my signature line that I quoted from mick...

I'm flattered.

[cmckenna]

Originally posted by rockyroad
So if I am reading cmckenna and w_sohl correctly, they will T a player for running up behind the shooter and yelling, but it's ok to run up behind the shooter and yell "Shot" or "Ball" because that's normal???? I don't get it...

1) I never said I T'd him... as a matter of fact, I did nothing...

2) The reference to "Shot" and "Ball" in my reply was to simply say that my original post did not state these... only the annoying yell...

3) I never said it was OK or not OK to yell "Shot" or "Ball" just that this is not what was said in my situation

4) This post was started just to hear opinions and get others perspectives. Isn't that what this forum is for?

[mick]

Originally posted by cmckenna

1) I never said I T'd him... as a matter of fact, I did nothing...

2) The reference to "Shot" and "Ball" in my reply was to simply say that my original post did not state these... only the annoying yell...

3) I never said it was OK or not OK to yell "Shot" or "Ball" just that this is not what was said in my situation

4) This post was started just to hear opinions and get others perspectives. Isn't that what this forum is for?

cmckenna,

Well, rockyroad did write, "...if I am reading cmckenna ... correctly..."
After umpteen threads, he had an out.
mick

[Hawks Coach]

Originally posted by mick

I'm flattered.

Signs that the apocalypse is upon us