NCAA - Stop clock on OOB or not?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Maybe, maybe not...there are people who still bird dog yet that hasn't been done at any higher level consistently all the time. And for all we know, someone may do a mechanic a certain way because they're just more comfortable with it than the prescribed mechanic. I just don't get how people feel "big timed" in any of this. And let's say the official is trying to do something they do at the upper level...it's not always a bad thing. I don't see many officials today who go hands on the hips to call a blocking foul and correct me if I'm wrong, didn't the fists on the hips came from the high levels and has trickled down, yet basketball still continues on at the "lower" levels?

I still birddog and every level I work has it as a mechanic. Now it is for clarification purposes and not every time, but it is still a mechanic. And the part of being big timed is that there are people that insist on doing something from another level when it is not allowed at the level they are currently working. I would never work a HS game and work college mechanic, just like I would never go to a college game and do HS mechanics or things. I know too many college officials that make it clear in multiple sports not to do things that the HS level does. Why is that hard for college or officials that work other levels to follow the standard of the level they are working? And hands on hips thing is a stylistic thing more than anything. I rarely know anyone that cares about that kind of stuff, just like I rarely find anyone that is worried if you use 4 fingers as opposed to two fingers on a directional signal. Just because the diagram shows something does not mean the people that created the picture are sticklers for everyone showing the exact picture in their mechanics. As a matter of fact there is very little commentary from the NF as to what is the reason for those pictures.

The biggest example that we see is someone that tries to wear a college jacket at the HS level. Now I do not know how many ways the CCA can say this, but those jackets were changed because people would try to wear them at HS games and they wanted the style to be totally different than what is required at the HS level in many areas. But officials seem to have to wear those. I have been working college basketball for years and would never think to wear a CCA jacket at the HS level, just like I would not wear an IHSA jacket at a college game.

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

This is certainly true for some and if they're having trouble with their mechanics then they should focus on getting the pure basics down. My point is if an official effectively communicates information and is getting the plays right, then why should I as an official care what he is doing? When I work with college officials in a high school game who don't stop the clock but just point or uses two hands, I'm not thinking, "this guy just big timed me." Or if I'm watching a game where the same thing happens, my thoughts are on the call...not all the superfluous stuff.

I also understand the reasoning why people don't go to two hand reporting, but I think its a bit overstated. Most issues anyway, from a scoring perspective, comes from the scorer not paying attention...rather than not understanding what number you've put up...at least in my experience.

Just like I feel it is a bit overstated that what is done at the other levels makes it better. I have always figured that those things are different because they levels want it to be different, not just because it is better.

Peace

[APG]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I still birddog and every level I work has it as a mechanic. Now it is for clarification purposes and not every time, but it is still a mechanic. And the part of being big timed is that there are people that insist on doing something from another level when it is not allowed at the level they are currently working. I would never work a HS game and work college mechanic, just like I would never go to a college game and do HS mechanics or things. I know too many college officials that make it clear in multiple sports not to do things that the HS level does. Why is that hard for college or officials that work other levels to follow the standard of the level they are working? And hands on hips thing is a stylistic thing more than anything. I rarely know anyone that cares about that kind of stuff, just like I rarely find anyone that is worried if you use 4 fingers as opposed to two fingers on a directional signal. Just because the diagram shows something does not mean the people that created the picture are sticklers for everyone showing the exact picture in their mechanics. As a matter of fact there is very little commentary from the NF as to what is the reason for those pictures.

Fair enough on the first point...you are right that it is optional. It's just something I almost never use.

You say you rarely find anyone that's worried bout four fingers versus two fingers, or hands versus fist on hips, but I've met plenty of people that care about inane stuff like that. We've had threads on the forums talk about hand up with five fingers, direction with four fingers, and spot of the throw-in with two. If we have threads like this, then there must be people who are making a huge deal about this. And if someone wanted to be "by the book," they'd have a case that you're wrong if you don't do the signals by the book even if you feel like it's mostly stylistic (I agree with you by the way on this point).

Let me clarify this, when I speak about mechanics, I'm mostly talking signals...rather than things like rotations/switches, PCAs, etc. On those kind of issues, you can deviate too much because this affects what your partners do. If a college guy wants to just point on an OOB call using just a finger, then IMO, that's just fine because 1.) the timer ain't looking for your stop clock signal anyway and stopped the clock on your whistle, 2.) you gave a direction that told me, the players, coaches, and fans who will be inbounding the ball. Mission accomplished.

The biggest example that we see is someone that tries to wear a college jacket at the HS level. Now I do not know how many ways the CCA can say this, but those jackets were changed because people would try to wear them at HS games and they wanted the style to be totally different than what is required at the HS level in many areas. But officials seem to have to wear those. I have been working college basketball for years and would never think to wear a CCA jacket at the HS level, just like I would not wear an IHSA jacket at a college game.

I can see your point here...to me, this isn't an in-game issue where the points we are discussing are noticed by no one except officials. A coach or payer can tell when one official is wearing a completely different jacket or shirt, but are completely indifferent about the lack of stopping the clock signal or two handed reporting.

Just like I feel it is a bit overstated that what is done at the other levels makes it better. I have always figured that those things are different because they levels want it to be different, not just because it is better.

Peace

I wasn't trying to make the point of one being better than the other though there are times when what they do at the next level is better. First example that comes to mind is the not closely guarded signal that was being used at the college level and being used in HS games by college officials and those copying the next level before NF decided to add it later.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

I wasn't trying to make the point of one being better than the other though there are times when what they do at the next level is better. First example that comes to mind is the not closely guarded signal that was being used at the college level and being used in HS games by college officials and those copying the next level before NF decided to add it later.

There are areas where certain signals are expected and even "required" by the organization. Yet there are a set of people who either work at a higher level and want to make sure that as many people know it as possible or that there are people who want people to think that they work at a higher level than they do by using the signals from those levels. There is no reason for them to do it aside form making themselves stand out.

If you're in an area where the assigning organization doesn't require the book signals, by all means, do whatever you like. But if you're in an area that says to use certain signals and you don't. What other reason could there be aside from wanting to give the impression that you're a higher level official?

I'm not talking about signals to communicate things for which there are no specified signals....but things like two-hand reporting where there is a perfectly viable alternative. There is no valid reason to go two-handed in an area that specifies one-handed.