Over-ruled

[tharbert]

2nd quarter – B up by 25 points. I was closed down at lead with the ball high on the weak side. A1 drove into the top of the key and made a pass to A2 under the basket. Unfortunately, the pass wrong-footed A2 and she couldn’t’ twist around quick enough to get a hand on the ball. I watched the ball leave A1’s hands, sail though the lane and land OOB. I blew my whistle and indicated the direction of B’s basket.

Twweeet! “NO! It’s this direction” the referee at C yelled. I looked up in time to see this guy waving his arms and pointing in A’s direction. He yells out “B1 tipped the ball” loud enough for all in the gym to hear.

I quickly reviewed the sitch. I know C should have come to me to ask if I was sure I had the call and ask if I saw a tip. Since C had so publicly expressed our disagreement, going with my original call would have cast doubt on our crew. It wasn’t a pivotal call and despite the point differential, the players had settled into a flow. At this point, I determined the best option was to give the ball to A. It was past the time where conferring seemed appropriate.

At half-time, this guy said he wouldn’t have made the call if he weren’t 110% sure. I mumbled under my breath that he shouldn’t have made the call at all, sure or not. Since he didn’t have the angle I enjoyed, I was fairly certain but not positive he was wrong. I was also 110% sure he went about this in a totally unacceptable way!

I know someone is gonna ask: Pre-game? Nope, my bad. And I had never been on the floor with this cretin either which makes me triply at odds with myself. I’m usually pretty good at working in a least a quick review.

I’m not quite through venting. I think I’ll go throw a chair on the court.

What would you have done?

[stripes]

Originally posted by tharbert
2nd quarter – B up by 25 points. I was closed down at lead with the ball high on the weak side. A1 drove into the top of the key and made a pass to A2 under the basket. Unfortunately, the pass wrong-footed A2 and she couldn’t’ twist around quick enough to get a hand on the ball. I watched the ball leave A1’s hands, sail though the lane and land OOB. I blew my whistle and indicated the direction of B’s basket.

Twweeet! “NO! It’s this direction” the referee at C yelled. I looked up in time to see this guy waving his arms and pointing in A’s direction. He yells out “B1 tipped the ball” loud enough for all in the gym to hear.

I quickly reviewed the sitch. I know C should have come to me to ask if I was sure I had the call and ask if I saw a tip. Since C had so publicly expressed our disagreement, going with my original call would have cast doubt on our crew. It wasn’t a pivotal call and despite the point differential, the players had settled into a flow. At this point, I determined the best option was to give the ball to A. It was past the time where conferring seemed appropriate.

At half-time, this guy said he wouldn’t have made the call if he weren’t 110% sure. I mumbled under my breath that he shouldn’t have made the call at all, sure or not. Since he didn’t have the angle I enjoyed, I was fairly certain but not positive he was wrong. I was also 110% sure he went about this in a totally unacceptable way!

I know someone is gonna ask: Pre-game? Nope, my bad. And I had never been on the floor with this cretin either which makes me triply at odds with myself. I’m usually pretty good at working in a least a quick review.

I’m not quite through venting. I think I’ll go throw a chair on the court.

What would you have done?

Why mumble under your breath? You have to work the rest of the game with the guy so why not talk about the proper way to handle the situation if it were to come up again? Put your frustration aside for the sake of the game and discuss calmly how to do it right. Remember to tell him the dangers of "over ruling" a partner and the repercussions for both of you.

[devdog69]

IMO, you did some things right and some things wrong in this situation:
Right: Just give the ball to A, if he is sure enough to tell you to change your call, change it, it's that simple. Tell him in the locker room that there is a proper way to 'offer help' on an out of bounds call and explain to him to come to you and offer information and then let you decide. In this situation, I tell my partners before every game 'if you are 110% sure on an OB call that I missed it, come to me, give me information, and I will change it 100% of the time'.
Of course, you already know the part about not pregaming, but I would have definitely told him not to 'overrule' your call in that manner.

[MN 3 Sport Ref]

Not questioning your judgement, but if the pass came from the weakside wouldn't the C have a great look at the entry pass??? I do agree the C didn't use very good judgement in relaying what they saw to you. It was your line you have the ultimate decision. Like we have said many times Pregame...pregame...pregame. Hind sight is 20-20 though I guess...

[zebraman]

The way he reacted, he must have been DARN sure that the ball was tipped. I would have just accepted the correction and given the ball to A. At halftime, I would have apologized profusely for not having a pre-game and then told my partner how we would handle that situation should it come up again.

Z

[Rich]

If my partner is 100% sure I missed a line call, I don't mind him hitting the whistle hard (or twice) and overruling on the spot.

I pregame this way with people I'm comfortable with.

The way I figure it -- if my partner comes to me and tells me he saw the line call differently, I'm sure he's completely sure I blew it. So why go through the charade of getting together and discussing when we both know the outcome?

I expect to be in the minority on this and I don't do this with people I'm unfamiliar with.

Rich

[canuckrefguy]

Rich....you're not in the minority, I agree completely. Change the call, get the ball back in ASAP. Just do it. Argue about it later.

I also agree with MN, C in this case would have a decent look at any tip, especially if the alleged tip happened higher up towards the FT line.

Too bad about the pre-game, you'll know better next time.

Finally, relax. Step back. Is this REALLY worth getting upset about? Your partner may have been a little more demonstrative than necessary, but you're taking it way too personally. It'd be really easy to take this situation the wrong way from a P you've never worked with before.

How we deal with these situations say as much or more about how good an official we are, as any tough block-charge or pass-and-crash call we make.

[Mregor]

I work only 2 man so I may be out of line. I had a similiar situation last Friday. I was trail, on a pass from A1, the ball was tipped by B and went OOB on baseline. Lead was right there and signaled B ball. A's coach is telling me, "You can override that, you have to overide that". Lead never looked at me and I never acknowleded the A coach. He inbounded to B and we played on. At halftime, I talked to him about it. He said he didn't know for sure if it was tipped or not. I asked him why he didn't look to me since he wasn't sure. He said he has been burnt in the past with partners that don't give him an answer so he didn't bother. We talked about it in a short pregame but it's one of those points you just cover and move on (if you need help with a call on your line, look at me. If I have a call I'll signal it to you, if not, AP). Earlier in the game, I had a question on one and when I looked at him, he gave me a signal so I was unsure why he wouldn't do the same. The point is, even though I thought his call was wrong, I did not signal because it was his call and if he had doubt he should have asked for help. I would hope my partner would do the same for me.

Mregor

[tw1ns]

Too many eyes on the court. That is why I like doing 2 man and working with my partner all the time. We know each other well and where we are on the court. Only some 4A schools are using 3 man crews in IA and only 2 man crews in the state tourney.

[MN BB Ref]

Originally posted by Mregor
The point is, even though I thought his call was wrong, I did not signal because it was his call and if he had doubt he should have asked for help. I would hope my partner would do the same for me.

Mregor

I disagree with this train of thought completely. In this case you saw the ball tipped by B but you still allowed a wrong call to be made. I'm sorry, I don't want to hurt my partners pride, but if I see something that is wrong, and I know its wrong, I will discreetly question his/her call. We OWE it to the teams that are playing to ensure that we get the calls right. That won't always happen, but when we know we saw something we can't pretend it didn't happen.

Just my two cents worth.

Dave

[Adam]

Originally posted by tw1ns
Too many eyes on the court. That is why I like doing 2 man and working with my partner all the time. We know each other well and where we are on the court. Only some 4A schools are using 3 man crews in IA and only 2 man crews in the state tourney.

Close, but not quite true, tw1ns. All the CIML (Central Iowa Metro Conference) are using 3 man crews at varsity level. Also, a surrounding area 3A conference (Raccoon River Conference) uses 3 man. Not sure about the rest of the state, but Central Iowa is moving towards 3 man, even at the 3A level.

snaqs

[Mregor]

Originally posted by MN BB Ref

I disagree with this train of thought completely. In this case you saw the ball tipped by B but you still allowed a wrong call to be made. I'm sorry, I don't want to hurt my partners pride, but if I see something that is wrong, and I know its wrong, I will discreetly question his/her call. We OWE it to the teams that are playing to ensure that we get the calls right. That won't always happen, but when we know we saw something we can't pretend it didn't happen.

Just my two cents worth.

Dave

It's his call right in front of him. How am I supposed to know if someone didn't hit it right in front of him? I am trail a whole lot farther from the play and it's his line. If he would have asked I would have gave him my input but I'm not going to make a big deal of it by stopping play. Disagree all you want, it's a semi-free world.

Mregor

[MN BB Ref]

You are right mregor...it is his call and something might have happened right in front of him. The fact of the matter is that wasn't the case...at least not this time. Stopping play to get a call right isn't enjoyable, but I think it does give us a little more credibility with the coaches, players, fans, etc. when we show that we care enough to make sure we get the call right. We don't have to make a big production out of it...just a simple "are you sure about that one partner?" will do. If he says yes, then "game on". If no, then tell him what you saw.

You are free to do as you please in the semi-free world.

Dave

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Mregor

It's his call right in front of him. How am I supposed to know if someone didn't hit it right in front of him? I am trail a whole lot farther from the play and it's his line. If he would have asked I would have gave him my input but I'm not going to make a big deal of it by stopping play. Disagree all you want, it's a semi-free world.

Mregor

Always, always, always offer information when you think your partner missed something on an OOB. It just takes a second and it makes the crew look good, whether the calling official makes a change or not. This goes double if you're standing by the coach & he's asking you to offer help or to go for help. Even if you are sure your partner got it right it just takes a second for you to huddle and play on without a change. And it will shut the coach up.

[rockyroad]

Just a quick thought...when your partner yelled out that the ball had been tipped, why didn't you call back "Yes, partner it was. But A tipped it also. It's B ball." Doesn't say he's wrong, just that you saw something else that he didn't...also, as has been said before, don't sweat it...it didn't show you up or anything, so let it go...he's not a cretin, just made a mistake...