Over-ruled - Page 2

Adam · #16 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 06, 2003, 01:24pm

Mregor is right. Running in like the C official in the original post can only disturb the chemistry of a crew. If a partner doesn't look for help on a play where he has the angle, best stay out of it.
Had one last weekend where I was the lead in a press, so I stop at about half court. A-1 got trapped in the far corner from me, right in front of my partner. Ball gets loose, and B-1 grabs the ball and throws it off A-1's leg out of bounds. To me, it looks clearly to be B's ball. Partner signals for ball to go to A. In my mind, I thought she missed it, but I let it go because she didn't look for help.
Talked about it at half-time. B-1 was standing out of bounds when she grabbed the ball. I would have been wrong to jump in, and I would have made the wrong call.

snaqs

MN BB Ref · #17 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 06, 2003, 01:32pm

You wouldn't have been WRONG to jump in Snaqwells, and you wouldn't have overruled her call once she told you the situation. You just would've clarified that it was correct. Thats not a bad thing.

As for chemistry on a crew, if you work with partners that are so fearful of being wrong that it will ruin the chemistry if you question what they saw, then you need some new partners. We are all human, and as such that means we are fallible.

AK ref SE · #18 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 06, 2003, 01:40pm

Was that the only call in the game that was overruled? If so, great move on, Talk about it at halftime. Discuss better ways to handle it in the future. If everytime a partner of my disagreed with my call or overruled my call, or even on this Board, disagreed with me I called them a cretin......Well I cant think of one person on this board that would not be a CRETIN by now.....Well maybe not Chuck Elias.

AK ref SE

MN 3 Sport Ref · #19 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 06, 2003, 02:19pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Snaqwells
Mregor is right. Running in like the C official in the original post can only disturb the chemistry of a crew. If a partner doesn't look for help on a play where he has the angle, best stay out of it.
Had one last weekend where I was the lead in a press, so I stop at about half court. A-1 got trapped in the far corner from me, right in front of my partner. Ball gets loose, and B-1 grabs the ball and throws it off A-1's leg out of bounds. To me, it looks clearly to be B's ball. Partner signals for ball to go to A. In my mind, I thought she missed it, but I let it go because she didn't look for help.
Talked about it at half-time. B-1 was standing out of bounds when she grabbed the ball. I would have been wrong to jump in, and I would have made the wrong call.

snaqs

I tend to disagree here. Communication and teamwork strengthen the chemistry of the crew not disrupt it. Again having talked about this in your pregame, ball goes OOB on leads line, lead sees not tip and gives signal. C who had a good look at entry pass from weak side (his primary) knows there was a tip. C gives sharp blast on whistle: "partner I had a defensive tip"

A. Thanks C the ball will stay here.
B. Yes but it then deflected off of A B's ball play on.

By not communicating what you see on the court you are jeapordizing what we as officials do out there. Have a good pre-game, feel comfortable w/ your partner and above all GET THE CALL RIGHT. The game of basketball is not for us officials to show how perfect we are and balloon our ego's it is for the players. Get it right for their sake.

MN BB Ref · #20 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 06, 2003, 02:46pm

Wow MN 3 Sport Ref, we've been agreeing on almost everything. With that kind of consensus we should arrange to work a game together.

tharbert · #21 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 06, 2003, 03:50pm

I totally agree with devdog. If C had come to me on a more private level instead of using the broadcast method, I wouldn't be wrapped around the axle on this. I probably would have changed it no questions asked.

The method he used made us look bad and is prohibited by rule.

I guess the coach I had in a game a few weeks ago must have had this guy before. Coach didn't agree with a call and asked that I overrule the other official. I mentioned that no referee can overrule the call of another referee. He looked at me like an arm had grown out of my forehead.

bigwhistle · #22 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 06, 2003, 05:22pm

Quote:

Originally posted by tharbert

The method he used made us look bad and is prohibited by rule.

Rule reference please.

Jurassic Referee · #23 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 06, 2003, 05:59pm

Quote:

Originally posted by bigwhistle

Quote:

Originally posted by tharbert

The method he used made us look bad and is prohibited by rule.

Rule reference please.

NFHS Rule 2-6,Biggy. You can suggest that your partner change an OOB call,but you can't change the call yourself-even if you're the R. It's up to the official that made the original OOB call whether he wants to change it or not.

ronald · #24 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 06, 2003, 06:01pm

Big whistle,

Rule 2, Section 6. No official has the authority to set aside or question decisions made by the other official(s) within the limits of their respective outlined duties.

Since I have never worked or taken a class on 3-man, I do not know whose duties we are talking about. If it was the lead, then C screwed up bigtime. Whatever the case, C should have moved towards L, made eye contact and told him what he had.

bigwhistle · #25 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 06, 2003, 06:59pm

I agree that the official who blew his whistle and yelled to change the call was wrong in the way he handled the situation. However, I still feel it is more of a mechanics problem than 2-6. Tharbart could have still gone with his call, but he reacted in a way that was best for the crew in the situation at hand.