Penalty for Disconcertion . . . by Whom?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by tref

Went to a JC camp last month & the "supervisor" wanted a pass/crass to be a push as opposed to a punch

A "pass and crash" would be a 'charging' foul on the offender which is reported with the 'push' mechanic.

[tref]

So you signal it a push & award FTs too?

How about illegal screens, do you signal block & award FTs?

I could've swore offensive fouls were punched out & sent up North...

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by tref

So you signal it a push & award FTs too?

How about illegal screens, do you signal block & award FTs?

I could've swore offensive fouls were punched out & sent up North...

Being cute with the wrong one T.

I don't know where you got these awarded free throws from.

All I said is that the mechanic for a charge is a "push". Around these parts you rarely (if ever) see the 'punch' mechanic reported to the table for offensive fouls on the NCAA Men's side. On the spot of the foul, maybe, but at the table, nope.

[tref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Being cute with the wrong one T.

I don't know where you got these awarded free throws from.

All I said is that the mechanic for a charge is a "push". Around these parts you rarely (if ever) see the 'punch' mechanic reported to the table for offensive fouls on the NCAA Men's side. On the spot of the foul, maybe, but at the table, nope.

Check my original post, I fixed it... not trying to be cute at all. I left the awarding FTs part out before. This is what "he" said.

Page 169 shows the punch signal & the text below it says team-control/player-control

FTR, the calling official did punch it at the spot. Help me out BNR!

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by tref

Check my original post, I fixed it... not trying to be cute at all. I left the awarding FTs part out before. This is what "he" said.

Page 169 shows the punch signal & the text below it says team-control/player-control

FTR, the calling official did punch it at the spot. Help me out BNR!

All I can that around here if you 'punch' at the table in camp someone will ask if you work on the Women's side. On the spot you'll see a 'punch' sometimes, usually from the lead.

Now, as far a FT's, well obviously this supervisor was having some kind of major brain fart.

[tref]

Got it, thanks BNR!

So punch (sometimes) at the spot but push at the table for pass/crash.

Are illegal screens a punch (sometimes) at the spot & block at the table?

I like to punch at the spot while vebalizing offense. That way everybody knows we are going the other way.
I've seen guys use the push or block at the spot with no verbal "offense" & it confuses everyone. Makes people think its a defensive foul.

Yeah that was my point, one of his boys pulled out a book & clarified it though. I think he was getting an airborne shooter that released the ball prior to contacting the defender mixed up somehow. In that case, yeah, we call it a push (no t/c) & shoot the FTs on the other end.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by tref

Got it, thanks BNR!

So punch (sometimes) at the spot but push at the table for pass/crash.

Are illegal screens a punch (sometimes) at the spot & block at the table?

I like to punch at the spot while vebalizing offense. That way everybody knows we are going the other way.
I've seen guys use the push or block at the spot with no verbal "offense" & it confuses everyone. Makes people think its a defensive foul.
...

For me it's usually a loud "offensive" or "illegal" while pointing and walking towards the other basket. "Block" or "push" mechanic at the table while saying "team control".

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

All I said is that the mechanic for a charge is a "push". Around these parts you rarely (if ever) see the 'punch' mechanic reported to the table for offensive fouls on the NCAA Men's side. On the spot of the foul, maybe, but at the table, nope.

So you have a pass/crash, you call a team control foul, but you don't give the team control foul signal at the table, and only "maybe" at the spot of the foul??? So you only give the "push" signal at the table? Why wouldn't you let EVERYBODY know that you're not shooting free throws? FWIW, this is not a men's/women's thing here. My (men's) assignors like the TC signal to be given at the table.

[tref]

Good looking out!

Sorry to hijack the thread too, BTW.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

So you have a pass/crash, you call a team control foul, but you don't give the team control foul signal at the table, and only "maybe" at the spot of the foul??? So you only give the "push" signal at the table? Why wouldn't you let EVERYBODY know that you're not shooting free throws? FWIW, this is not a men's/women's thing here. My (men's) assignors like the TC signal to be given at the table.

I gave the 'punch' in a camp a few years ago and the observer advised against using it. Haven't had anybody tell me that I need to use it since then. So far it's working out for me.

I have never had a problem with everybody not knowing what I have on those type of plays.

Not telling anybody what they should do, only what I observe in my environment and what has been successful for me (or at least hasn't hindered me).

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I gave the 'punch' in a camp a few years ago and the observer advised against using it.

I guess this just makes no sense to me. Why would you not give an approved signal that clearly identifies the foul as non-shooting? If the purpose of signals is to communicate, that seems like a pretty good signal to use in that situation.

So let me ask you this: does the assignor tell you not to use the PC signal at the table as well? If not, what do you signal after a crash before the try has been released?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I guess this just makes no sense to me. Why would you not give an approved signal that clearly identifies the foul as non-shooting? If the purpose of signals is to communicate, that seems like a pretty good signal to use in that situation.

So let me ask you this: does the assignor tell you not to use the PC signal at the table as well? If not, what do you signal after a crash before the try has been released?

For whatever reason, the 'punch' hasn't taken hold around these parts. I don't try to explain it nor care to figure it out. I just watch and listen to those who are more successful than myself and try to emulate them.

Not counting AAU/Rec/Intramurals I work for 5 different assignors. Never once has any of them brought up that I (or anyone else) is not properly using the 'punch' mechanic.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Not counting AAU/Rec/Intramurals I work for 5 different assignors. Never once has any of them brought up that I (or anyone else) is not properly using the 'punch' mechanic.

I can't blame you for not rocking the boat. I just don't get it. Just to show you how things are different in different places, this happened near the end of this past season. NCAA (D3) men's game. Conference assignor is at the game because it has implications for the conference tourney. Off-ball screen, pretty obvious, not a difficult call, I grab it from the C and report it with the punch at the table, as I always do.

In the locker room after the game, assignor comes in and says, "Good get on the screen. As soon as you blew the whistle, I turned to [another official] and said, 'Watch. He'll use the right signal, too.' "

That's not to toot my horn, just to show you that around here, anyway, the assignors expect the punch to be used. Funny ol' world, in'nit?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I can't blame you for not rocking the boat. I just don't get it. Just to show you how things are different in different places, this happened near the end of this past season. NCAA (D3) men's game. Conference assignor is at the game because it has implications for the conference tourney. Off-ball screen, pretty obvious, not a difficult call, I grab it from the C and report it with the punch at the table, as I always do.

In the locker room after the game, assignor comes in and says, "Good get on the screen. As soon as you blew the whistle, I turned to [another official] and said, 'Watch. He'll use the right signal, too.' "

That's not to toot my horn, just to show you that around here, anyway, the assignors expect the punch to be used. Funny ol' world, in'nit?

Yep...I was in a college camp a couple weeks ago. It was a mixed group because the supervisor assigns both men and women. I was working with a NCAA-M crew but in front of a NCAA-W official who was observing. He asked me why I was using HS mechanics. I asked if he was talking about my one-handed reporting. He said "no, you keep raising your hand to stop the clock on OOB calls" I told him my #1 supervisor is a stickler for that.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Not counting AAU/Rec/Intramurals I work for 5 different assignors. Never once has any of them brought up that I (or anyone else) is not properly using the 'punch' mechanic.

I bet if you used it, they wouldn't bring it up either.