Whaddya got?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

This argument carries the day. It's perfect.
Of course, Rut would T the guy for punching the opponent. He would argue that he's penalizing the thought which entered the player's head just before he struck his opponent or some other such nonsense.

For the record, there is an argument to be made that the punch would be considered "fighting" and thus should be penalized as a flagrant T regardless of whether it's dead ball or live ball contact.

That was how I was instructed, after the fact, to call a particular fight in a game I worked several years ago in Iowa.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

For the record, there is an argument to be made that the punch would be considered "fighting" and thus should be penalized as a flagrant T regardless of whether it's dead ball or live ball contact.

That was how I was instructed, after the fact, to call a particular fight in a game I worked several years ago in Iowa.

Not just an argument, that is what the rule is.

Peace

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

For the record, there is an argument to be made that the punch would be considered "fighting" and thus should be penalized as a flagrant T regardless of whether it's dead ball or live ball contact.

That was how I was instructed, after the fact, to call a particular fight in a game I worked several years ago in Iowa.

Too bad that you were instructed such. That is incorrect. Fighting is a flagrant technical foul when done during a dead ball, but a flagrant personal when done during a live ball. See these two case plays.

In the first the ball is dead following the dunk. Then there is a noncontact unsporting T for the taunt, which becomes an act of fighting when the opponent retaliates with the punch.

FIGHTING

4.18.2 SITUATION:

A1 dunks over B1 and then taunts B1. B1 retaliates and
punches A1. RULING: Both A1 and B1 are charged with a flagrant technical foul
for fighting and are disqualified. A1’s action is defined as fighting when the taunting
caused B1 to retaliate by fighting. (10-3; 10-3-6c: 10-3-8)

In this second one, there is nothing to make the ball dead prior to the first illegal contact, so the fouls are personal.

8.7 SITUATION A:

A1 is attempting the second free throw of a two-shot foul.
While the second free throw is in flight, A2 and B1 punch each other simultaneously.

RULING:

Both A2 and B1 are disqualified for fighting. Since this is a double personal foul, no free throws are awarded. The ball is put in play at the point
of interruption. If A1's free throw is successful, Team B is awarded a throw-in
from anywhere along the end line. If A1's free throw is unsuccessful, the alternating-
possession procedure is used. (4-19-8; 6-4-3g; 7-5-3b; 4-36; 10-3-8; 10
Penalty 1c, 8a(1))

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Not just an argument, that is what the rule is.

DEAD WRONG!!!

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Too bad that you were instructed such. That is incorrect. Fighting is a flagrant technical foul when done during a dead ball, but a flagrant personal when done during a live ball. See these two case plays.

In the first the ball is dead following the dunk. Then there is a noncontact unsporting T for the taunt, which becomes an act of fighting when the opponent retaliates with the punch.

FIGHTING

4.18.2 SITUATION:

A1 dunks over B1 and then taunts B1. B1 retaliates and
punches A1. RULING: Both A1 and B1 are charged with a flagrant technical foul
for fighting and are disqualified. A1’s action is defined as fighting when the taunting
caused B1 to retaliate by fighting. (10-3; 10-3-6c: 10-3-8)

In this second one, there is nothing to make the ball dead prior to the first illegal contact, so the fouls are personal.

8.7 SITUATION A:

A1 is attempting the second free throw of a two-shot foul.
While the second free throw is in flight, A2 and B1 punch each other simultaneously.

RULING:

Both A2 and B1 are disqualified for fighting. Since this is a double personal foul, no free throws are awarded. The ball is put in play at the point
of interruption. If A1's free throw is successful, Team B is awarded a throw-in
from anywhere along the end line. If A1's free throw is unsuccessful, the alternating-
possession procedure is used. (4-19-8; 6-4-3g; 7-5-3b; 4-36; 10-3-8; 10
Penalty 1c, 8a(1))

DEAD WRONG!!!

Not exactly correct. While there is a casebook play that agrees with you, the rule book has a contradiction on this point.

10-3-8 says, in very simple words, that fighting is a technical foul with no distinction on whether the ball is live or dead or whether there is contact or not.

10-3 Player Technical. Art. 8....Be charged with fighting.

4-18 defines fighting and further says that fighting occurs whether there is contact or not and can occur during a live ball or a dead ball.