Foul under the basket?

k2explorer · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 15, 2003, 09:12am

Boys JV game. A1 has the ball coming towards the basket. B1 about under the basket, but is standing still. A1 goes in for a layup but definitely runs into B1. I call a charge, no basket. The coach of A1 goes nutty saying that B1 was under the basket and I should not have called it and what a terrible call it was.

I know in the NBA they have that semi circle but what about H.S.? Was my call the wrong one? I thought it was a charge, plain and simple. What exactly does the semi circle in the NBA do?

devdog69 · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 15, 2003, 09:27am

This is a good topic for discussion with varying degrees of opinion. Mine is you can't play defense from under the basket, but if it's blatant and he's definitely set to take a charge, the dribbler out of control, I might call it. My preference would be to no call it if it all possible.

Ron · #3 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 15, 2003, 09:34am

It's perfectly legal for a defender to "take a charge" while standing under the basket. But, like devdog, I'd want the contact to be pretty severe in order to award the defender in that situation.

In the NBA, a defender must have both feet outside of that semi-circle or any contact with a shooter is an automatic blocking foul.

bob jenkins · #4 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 15, 2003, 09:43am

Quote:

Originally posted by k2explorer
Boys JV game. A1 has the ball coming towards the basket. B1 about under the basket, but is standing still. A1 goes in for a layup but definitely runs into B1. I call a charge, no basket. The coach of A1 goes nutty saying that B1 was under the basket and I should not have called it and what a terrible call it was.

I know in the NBA they have that semi circle but what about H.S.? Was my call the wrong one? I thought it was a charge, plain and simple. What exactly does the semi circle in the NBA do?

There's a specific case (10.something) that deals with this -- foul in NFHS.

"Coach, when he gets to the NBA, he'll get that call. But, as you know, in HS there's no circle under the basket."

RecRef · #5 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 15, 2003, 10:20am

Quote:

Originally posted by devdog69
This is a good topic for discussion with varying degrees of opinion. Mine is you can't play defense from under the basket, but if it's blatant and he's definitely set to take a charge, the dribbler out of control, I might call it. My preference would be to no call it if it all possible.

And what about the Ds right to his spot on the floor? I'd say that by not calling it, it is a good way to get someone hurt.

k2explorer · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 15, 2003, 10:47am

tHE CASE IS 10.6.1 SITUATION D:

"B1 standing behind the plane of the backboard before A1 jumps for a lay up. Forward momentum causes A1 to charge into B1. RULING: B1 is entitled to position obtained legally before A1 left the floor. If ball goes through basket, player control foul cancels the score.

I would say this applies to my situation.

rockyroad · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 15, 2003, 10:56am

Basically you have a coach who has been listening to Billy Packer on Saturday mornings...in HS games played under Fed rules, that is a player control foul...in NCAA womens games, it is either a no-call or a block...not sure what the NCAA men's guidelines are...your call was absolutely correct...

NCAAREF · #8 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 15, 2003, 11:43am

NCAA Women's rules state that "a defender who establishes a position directly under the cylinder or behind the backboard when a dribbler becomes an airborne shooter is not in a legai guarding position, regardless if she got to the spot first". If contact occurs it is either incidental or a foul on the defensive player. The exception to this is if the dribbler is on a path parallel to the end line. In this case the position directly under the cylinder or behind the back board is legal. The key phrase is all of this is "airborne shooter." If the offense doesn't leave the floor for a shot, all bets are off and you make the block/charge call accordingly.

MN 3 Sport Ref · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 15, 2003, 11:47am

Quote:

Originally posted by NCAAREF
NCAA Women's rules state that "a defender who establishes a position directly under the cylinder or behind the backboard when a dribbler becomes an airborne shooter is not in a legai guarding position, regardless if she got to the spot first". If contact occurs it is either incidental or a foul on the defensive player. The exception to this is if the dribbler is on a path parallel to the end line. In this case the position directly under the cylinder or behind the back board is legal. The key phrase is all of this is "airborne shooter." If the offense doesn't leave the floor for a shot, all bets are off and you make the block/charge call accordingly.

NCAA: My thoughts exactly. IN mens NC2a what is the position on this? I have only worked a couple of Mens games and do not have my off manual/rules book w/ me.

Camron Rust · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 15, 2003, 02:00pm

Quote:

Originally posted by devdog69
This is a good topic for discussion with varying degrees of opinion. Mine is you can't play defense from under the basket, but if it's blatant and he's definitely set to take a charge, the dribbler out of control, I might call it. My preference would be to no call it if it all possible.

My opinion is that this is a charge. The defender's position, if charges will get called, forces the shooter to pull up for a somewhat more difficult 2-3 ft. jumper rather than a layup or dunk. In my book, making the shooter take a more difficult shot is the essence of good defense. When the defense takes the spot the offense wants, that is good defense anywhere on the court.

ROMANO · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 15, 2003, 02:37pm

As i always say:
NO CALL IS THE BEST CALL

zebraman · #12 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 15, 2003, 04:24pm

The NFHS has made it very clear that they want this called as an offensive charge. There is even a case book play that has this exact scenario. Rough play is a point of emphasis every year. Offensive charge calls reduce rough play by sending a message to the offense that they need to stay in control and will be penalized when they barrel over the defense. You made the right call.

As our rules interpreter said, "if there is a block/charge situation with displacement, you'd better have a whistle!

Z

SMcQueen · #13 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 15, 2003, 04:39pm

Your asking for trouble in the 4th quarter Romano. You send the message that it's ok to clobber a guy like that you will have bodies flying throught the lane by the end of the game and someone's gonna end up hurt. NCAA and up may be a different story but I'd say JV and down you need to let the kids know that they are playing basketball, not football. Play under control is what I tell them.

Good call K2

devdog69 · #14 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 15, 2003, 04:47pm

The key here for me is K2 said "runs into b1" he didn't say "runs OVER B1". For me, there is a difference. As always, the disclaimer "I would have to see the play", but by the sound of it, I am probably not calling it in the former, but in the latter it is a charge. If he gives him a little bump and B1 is knocked back a couple of inches and your assignor says you better have a whistle, like zebramans, then fine. If my assignor tells me I had better have a whistle, I will either work elsewhere or ignore him and wait til he quits calling me. IMO, he is hiring me to use MY judgement, either live with it or don't hire me.

LarryS · #15 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 15, 2003, 04:47pm

Quote:

Originally posted by SMcQueen
NCAA and up may be a different story but I'd say JV and down you need to let the kids know that they are playing basketball, not football. Play under control is what I tell them.

What about high school varsity...do you wing it or call a double foul?