NFHS rule changes announced

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I must have overlooked something in the press release because I did not see anything that said they got rid of 8-7. It seems like they changed something dealing with penalty administration, but no indication they got rid of that rule. I think we would need to see what the actual change or clarification is first.

Peace

The pdf file on nfhs.org says 8-7 is deleted because it became unnecessary.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

The pdf file on nfhs.org says 8-7 is deleted because it became unnecessary.

OK, I did not see the PDF file. I was only looking at what the site listed. Thank for the clarification.

Peace

[Mark Padgett]

If TC now exists from the beginning of the throw in, what's the call in these instances. I know we've kind of discussed them above, but let's get specific.

Play 1) A1 to inbound in front court. A1 throws the ball to A2. It hits A2 in the hand and goes into BC where it is first touched by A2. Violation?

Play 2) A1 to inbound in front court. A1 throws the ball to A2. It hits the floor in front court and then goes into back court without having touched a player where it is first touched by A2. Violation?

Play 3) A1 to inbound in front court. A1 throws the ball to A2 who is in the back court and A2 catches the ball there. Is there an exception to allow this like there is in NCAA (as I am told)?

Note that neither of these is a violation under the "current" rules.

[APG]

Technically we can't answer that until we see if NF has added the appropriate exceptions. Assuming NFHS goes the easy route and just adopts the rule as is from NCAA, none of the plays would be violations.

I do think it safe to say that even though we haven't seen the actual rule changes and exceptions, these will also not be violations under NFHS.

Again the NCAA exceptions that allow all of this:

Rule 7, Section 6 Throw-in

Art. 7. When the ball is located out of bounds, the thrower-in may pass the ball into the back court.
Art. 8. Regardless of where the throw-in spot is located, the throw-in team may cause the ball to go into the back court.
Art. 9. After the throw-in ends, an inbounds player in the front court who is not in control of the ball may cause the ball to go into the back court.

[JRutledge]

Mark, I do not think any of us are going to know for sure until we see the actual rules written. I have to think that the rules will mirror the college level which does not appear to have any of these situations as a BC violations based on the way they write their rules. Not saying they will not screw this up, but it appears they have taken on the NCAA philosophy which only created the rule to include the throw-in for TC foul purposes.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

If TC now exists from the beginning of the throw in, what's the call in these instances. I know we've kind of discussed them above, but let's get specific.

Play 1) A1 to inbound in front court. A1 throws the ball to A2. It hits A2 in the hand and goes into BC where it is first touched by A2. Violation?

Play 2) A1 to inbound in front court. A1 throws the ball to A2. It hits the floor in front court and then goes into back court without having touched a player where it is first touched by A2. Violation?

Play 3) A1 to inbound in front court. A1 throws the ball to A2 who is in the back court and A2 catches the ball there. Is there an exception to allow this like there is in NCAA (as I am told)?

Note that neither of these is a violation under the "current" rules.

Without appropriate exceptions, 1 and 2 would be violations if TC is added to the throw in.

#3, however, would not change, since the BC and FC are both defined as being in bounds.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Mark, I do not think any of us are going to know for sure until we see the actual rules written. I have to think that the rules will mirror the college level which does not appear to have any of these situations as a BC violations based on the way they write their rules. Not saying they will not screw this up, but it appears they have taken on the NCAA philosophy which only created the rule to include the throw-in for TC foul purposes.

Peace

I fully expect them to mirror the language of the NCAA, but you never really know.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I fully expect them to mirror the language of the NCAA, but you never really know.

I would be shocked if they did not understand the ramifications of this change.

Peace

[Altor]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Without appropriate exceptions, 1 and 2 would be violations if TC is added to the throw in.

Doesn't Rule 9-9-1 require the offense to be the last to touch the ball in the front court for there to be a violation? As such, I don't see how situation #2 is a violation. As you said, the front court is in bounds. The last player to touch the ball was out of bounds.

(full disclosure: basketball layman, just looking for clarificiation)

[Adam]

Look at 9-9-2 if you have a book. I'll check tonight, otherwise.

[Altor]

9-9-2 is about a ball going from the back court to the front court to the back court without an intervening touch. It wasn't in the back court originally. It was out of bounds.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Altor

Doesn't Rule 9-9-1 require the offense to be the last to touch the ball in the front court for there to be a violation? As such, I don't see how situation #2 is a violation. As you said, the front court is in bounds. The last player to touch the ball was out of bounds.

(full disclosure: basketball layman, just looking for clarificiation)

No. The rule doesn't require that the offense touch the ball IN the front court, just that they be the last to have touched the ball when the ball was in the frontcourt....that touch may have been elsewhere.

When the ball bounced in the frontcourt, who was the last to have touched it? A1.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I would be shocked if they did not understand the ramifications of this change.

Peace

I wouldn't be.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I wouldn't be.

I am not saying they will not screw it up, just saying I think they would not be aware of the fact that changes and exceptions would have to be made.

Peace

[APG]

Originally Posted by Altor

Doesn't Rule 9-9-1 require the offense to be the last to touch the ball in the front court for there to be a violation? As such, I don't see how situation #2 is a violation. As you said, the front court is in bounds. The last player to touch the ball was out of bounds.

(full disclosure: basketball layman, just looking for clarificiation)

As Camron pointed out, the rule says that the team in control is last to touch the ball when the ball when the ball had frontcourt status. Otherwise, the situation where a A1 throws the ball from his backcourt, ball hits an official whom is located in the frontcourt, ball rebounds in the backcourt where the A1 recovers the ball wouldn't be a backcourt violation when in fact it is.