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Mon Jan 06, 2003, 01:33pm
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This thread is a good one in that it really stresses some important issues for me. Foremost the importance of a good pregame. IF properly discussed, that is why with the double whistle we first both come up w/ a fist. IF the play is coming to the lead he better come out and sell the block or charge. Problem avoided. Yes, the trail may have saw the opposite and not like it but I guess around here we really stress staying in primary's and calling YOUR foul there. If the lead (primary) was not sure about the call then he should have passed on it and allowed the trail to then pick it up. I am assuming (maybe incorrectly) that this occured on a dribble/drive sitch where the play was in transition from one primary to the other. However Chuck is correct about what needs to be done (FED) where you see conflicting siganls given. Hopefully though IMO w/ proper pregame this can be avoided 99.99%of the time...
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Mon Jan 06, 2003, 02:04pm
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Quote:
 Do any high school associations NOT switch on EVERY foul? Just curious. Actually, this is why I never come up with anything but a fist (I recognize that this is NOT the college mechanic). If my partner comes up with a call going either way, I let him have the call regardless of what I saw. If we both come up with a fist, then I assume that the call will be made by the official to whom the play is coming. Editorially speaking, I think the rule is weak. Either the play was a block or a charge, not both. While it is not proper according to the rules, I think the NCAA women have come up with a common sense way to approach the situation. I hear that next year they are going to include flogging the official that shouldn't have made the call in the first place Rich
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Mon Jan 06, 2003, 03:08pm
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Makes one look stupid
Had a similar call a couple years back to open my season... first game of the season, first call of the game. I'm lead. Drive comes from forward toward the baseline and then turns toward the key along the baseline. I jump accross the key to see the action. I'm about 3-5 feet away when the collision occurs. I fire up my fist yelling "BLOCK" and come booming out to report. Everyone seems uninterested in what I have to report. My new-to-varsity partner has already reported.... and reported a player control foul! Now the scorer's table wants to know which foul to put in the book. Neither of us was aware that the other had called anything.
Despite my call being made from the location of the foul and my "partner's" being made from 30 feet away I recanted and let his call stand. It was his side of the key and he had some cockamamie story about the dribbler leading into the defender with the non-dribbling arm. I didn't feel the defender was properly in position... basically he was first to report and I sucked it up and let him have the honor of embarrassing me. It made us look stupid. I also can see how a coach would feel slighted. If the play can go either way why should only my player get a foul? That's a definite advantage as two centers go at it and one of them gets an extra foul. Wish I would have been working with Chuck then both players would have been evenly penalized and we wouldn't have looked so poor. Of course there would probably have only been one whistle... right Chuck.
__________________
"There are no superstar calls. We don't root for certain teams. We don't cheat. But sometimes we just miss calls." - Joe Crawford
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Mon Jan 06, 2003, 03:10pm
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Re: Makes one look stupid
Quote:
Chuck
__________________
Any NCAA rules and interpretations in this post are relevant for men's games only!
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Mon Jan 06, 2003, 03:31pm
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Interesting because this sitch occured twice yesterday. Both times I was trail and we had a double whistle, I hesitated and gave the call to my partner. At half, he asks if I had the same call, I didn't. Good thing I hesitated because you can end up looking STUPID.
As for Romano's question. I do ref FIBA rules (mostly). I don't think that the double foul rule exists to cover a block-charge. It seems to me in this situation, you go with block or charge. In this case, the lead should take the call as the ball as going towards him. The FIBA rule book specifically states that two fouls cannot occur at the same time (except for a double foul). Example, if there is a shooting foul and a foul away from the ball at approx. the same time, the officials must determine which came first. (FIBA) I would think block-charge is the same idea, it's either a block or a charge. Even if you get wrong, call something.
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Mon Jan 06, 2003, 06:29pm
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Tue Jan 07, 2003, 02:16am
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Curious, here, where was the shooter when all this happened?
Free throw line? Down by the blocks? Top of the circle? It'd help to know where the foul(s) occurred. My instincts tell me your partner had a quick whistle here, unless you were straightlined or something. Also, THE BEST CALL IS NO CALL may be catchy, and may apply some of the time, but it's not a mantra I'd go by.
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Tue Jan 07, 2003, 02:29am
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The shooter was down by the blocke, near the basket and i was the lead official.
the problem is that you must give respect to you'r partner and in my situaiton he was the refree.
__________________
THE ISRAELI OFFICIAL IS BACK
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Tue Jan 07, 2003, 02:48am
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Your partner may have been "the referee" but he was out of line here, in my books. Down by the blocks, there is NO WAY the trail should be blowing his whistle, unless there's something CATASTROPHIC that the lead has missed.
If it was up by the free throw line, that's an okay double-whistle, but down by the blocks is the LEAD'S AREA in 2-person mechanics, unless you are totally blocked out on the play, and you need your partner's help to bail you out. Your partner ignored the two biggest rules of officiating: 1) Trust your partner 2) Watch your primary Also, in 2-person crews, referee or umpire makes NO DIFFERENCE. You're out there together, equal, and equally accountable. You made the right call here from what I can see, too bad you didn't stick with it. The one thing the other guys nailed right on was the bit about pre-game...establish what to do on double-whistles, and more importantly, how to prevent them!
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Tue Jan 07, 2003, 02:53am
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Sorry....correction....you DID stick with your call, and your partner agreed, so you BOTH did the right thing!
He still shouldn't have blown his whistle, though.
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Tue Jan 07, 2003, 08:31am
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Quote:
If two, was the play on the Lead's side of the paint or the trail's? If three, where did the play originate?
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