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Mon May 08, 2000, 02:44pm
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When I got to the gym this past Saturday for my spring rec league shift, the guys were talking about a comment one of the refs, Jeff, made to a coach earlier. I thought it was funny enough to pass along.
There was a timeout midway through the second quarter of a varsity boys level game. Jeff went to the table to report it. Coach A came over, looked at the book and said to Jeff, "They only have two fouls and we have eight. What the hell kind of game are you calling, anyway?" Jeff looked at the book and said, "You're wrong coach." He then rang the guy up. "You actually have nine. Would you like to try for ten?" Apparently, the coach opened his mouth, then shut it. Jeff said the guy didn't say another word the rest of the game. Jeff gets this weeks Dave award. 
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Tue May 09, 2000, 12:18am
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quote: I understand what you are saying but I must admit that the one comment I hate to hear above almost all others is "call it both ways". Taken literally (and yes - I know most coaches don't mean it in the literal sense) it implies that you are cheating. It says you are favoring one team over the other. If a coach just "says it" within the context of how most coaches "say it" (not implying we're cheating, but feeling that their team isn't getting "their share" of the calls - whatever that means), I usually let it go. But if a coach says it over and over during a game, I will ask him to point out specific plays in which he saw identical situations and identical contact and identical advantage/disadvantage against each team where a foul was called against his team but not the other. Usually, they respond by telling you they can't cite specific plays to which I reply that I can't respond to their comment, and when they have a specific example, I'll be glad to listen, but that I can't really respond to broad generalities. Of course, this usually confuses them beyond their normal state of confusion, which is my objective. because it usually results in peace and quiet. [This message has been edited by Mark Padgett (edited May 09, 2000).]
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Tue May 09, 2000, 11:04am
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Mark -
And I bet the next time Jeff refed that coach's game, coach was more careful about how he expressed his concerns. It is all in how you say something to a person. If he had said "Please watch the fouls. Call it both ways Jeff" he probably would have been spared the T. I've given out very few Ts since I started refing and one I remember in particular was given because the coach said something that was meant to embarass and question the ability of the refs. A no-no in my book. He simply said: "You guys (refs) are the reason this game is so close". Nice and loud so everybody in the gym could hear it. You can't let a coach make a comment like that. It can incite the crowd. Once that happens you are really in trouble. After I t'd him up the game went a lot smoother and I think the coach realized he was not going to get away that kind of behavior. He respected us more. Jack
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Tue May 09, 2000, 02:16pm
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I wish more refs would go by Jack's guidance. I think that many times refs are too lenient in what they tolerate in terms of abuse from coaches. the most abusive coaches also tend to have abusive fans, and the entire game becomes a little intense. just returning from AAU Regionals for 10U girls. Most coaches were well-behaved, but one team coaches and fans got a little out of control, to the point where fans were running up and down the sidelines in response to calls (covering a good 20-30 feet each time). This is not appropriate for what is a learning environment for young players. We were watching the game and supporting one of our other club teams. our players began to react to this by imitating some of the worst behavior. We had to explain to them that we do not do as we see others do on the court. But this is a lesson they will learn, while the other team is busy learning how to behave like animals. I really wish the refs would have taken a strong action, especially with regard to the fan behavior. These fans will get worse as their players age.
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Tue May 09, 2000, 02:38pm
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Oh yes, Mark, I agree --- he'd have to give me a specific play for me to listen or I wouldn't be able to explain (briefly) why I called a foul on one end of the court and not on the other. However, half the time those types of discussions don't go anywhere anyway anyhow!
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Tue May 09, 2000, 05:13pm
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Long ago, I stopped trying to "educate" coaches who constantly complain about calls ("call it both ways", "8 fouls to 2?", etc.)
Cut to the chase and simply ask pointedly "are you insinuating that I'm cheating?" Most will back off with shock ("no, no...i'm not saying THAT!") and choose their words more carefully. If not, or they continue to protest...then ring 'em up. Seems to have worked well for me.
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Wed May 10, 2000, 07:29pm
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Hawks Coach, Could you help me out? I just finished my first year of officiating. I did mostly catholic school girls' games (grades 5-8). One school that I worked at a few times had this large group of youngsters, on a stage, at one end of the court. They were loud and obnoxious little buggers who often taunted the shooter (of the opponent team of course) during free throws. During a time-out I asked my partner if we should do something about these kids. Clearly, there was room for them to sit in the bleachers. She told me that it was none of our business. She being the veteran and I the rookie, I did not question her. However, isn't part of our job to control ANYTHING that effects the play within the black lines? I will certainly be assigned to this school again next year. I'm interested in your thoughts. Thanks!
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Thu May 11, 2000, 08:43am
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I don't think there is anything you can or should do to control such a crowd, assuming they're not affecting the game by throwing stuff on the floor, etc. However, I would not tolerate verbal abuse that crosses into threats, racial remarks, and so forth.
quote: ------------------ JAdams
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Thu May 11, 2000, 09:37am
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I disagree with the idea that a referee can and should do nothing. This is not the NCAA, it is a youth league. I would start with the directors of the league to find out if they have any standards of conduct they expect. There should also be a gym supervisor that is responsible for fan conduct. Their responsiblities can range from making sure they don't have food and drinks in the bleachers ( a rule at our school) to ensuring that fans have appropriate behavior at games. In our youth league this year (county sponsored), a parent was ejected for inappropriate conduct at a 5th grade girls game. In another contest, we got a second chance at free throw when a parent attempted to distract the shooter on technical free throws -= and the parent was told to shut up. While there is no rule against this (she was in the stands) in NF, the context of a youth rec league makes this behavior inappropriate. We have young children who are just being introduced to sports, and this should not be part of that introduction.
At AAU games, that type of behavior will not be stopped, but excessive vociferous dissent with referees should be stopped. Every high school in our county has signs warning specatators about appropriate behavior in a learning environment. I would love to see the most vocal ref baiters in youth sports silenced, and it is up to all of us to make that happen. My players' parents know that I will not tolerate that type of behavior, and their kid will sit if they lose control. But only my league administrators and refs on the floor can control the other teams. Most of my experiences have been very positive, but every league has at least one idiot coach and a bunch of idiot parents who don't get the point of youth sports.
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Thu May 11, 2000, 09:44am
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I agree with pizanno cut to the chase. Most are stunned and dont know what to day and if a coach happens to say you are cheating then you know what he gets stuck with. Crowd control is a different area. I am not going to allow fans to run up and down the sideline. I will go to game administration and put them up in the bleachers or send them out.
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Thu May 11, 2000, 11:27am
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quote: There it is in a nutshell. Game administrators need to be responsible for crowd control. We teach our new referees that they are not to police the crowd, but if they are getting out of control, get the administrators to do something about it. Unfortunately, many administrators avoid this type of conflict with spectators. Best story I have is a game I refereed: My wife was watching in the crowd, and a couple kids in the stands were making some inappropriate comments. My wife told them basically to shut up. A lady sitting next to her heard everything that happened, and thanked her for saying something. It was only later that my wife found out the the lady WAS the game administrator. WHY DIDN'T THE ADMIN SAY SOMETHING HERSELF? This lack of action happens at way too many schools... ------------------ Brian Johnson [This message has been edited by PublicBJ (edited May 11, 2000).]
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