2011 NCAAM Sweet 16

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by CLH

#11 is not trying to screen, he's passing the ball and gets hit by a defender. If there is anything on this play its a defensive foul on #54.

Just because he had the ball doesn't mean he wasn't trying to set a screen.

[JugglingReferee]

I do not have a foul, but that's after seeing the play in slow-motion replay.

In real time, I can see if one, me included, were to call this a foul.

Just one fact first: the contact occurred when the ball was out of A1's hands.

What I see is two players moving along their chosen paths. The offensive player's path is created first when he moves parallel to the end line. (He happens to be facing away from the basket - but the direction he faces doesn't matter.) After A1's path is established, defensive player B1 begins his path. They collide because the chosen paths of the two players intersect.

Since the offensive player established his path first, the onus is on the defensive player to avoid illegal contact.

The million dollar question is:

Does a player giving up player possession need to give time and distance if said player is committed to an established path? I say "no".

[JRutledge]

It does look like he threw his body into the defender to shield the pass attempt.

Not sure I would have called anything at first glance, but it appears to be the right call.

Peace

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It does look like he threw his body into the defender to shield the pass attempt.

Not sure I would have called anything at first glance, but it appears to be the right call.

Peace

+1

I'll take this side.

I'm not sure how you call a block. What real advantage was gained by the defense?

Now, an illegal screen foul or just a foul? The contact definitely freed up the offensive player to take an unopposed shot.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by grunewar

+1

I'll take this side.

I'm not sure how you call a block. What real advantage was gained by the defense?

Now, an illegal screen foul or just a foul? The contact definitely freed up the offensive player to take an unopposed shot.

Does it matter? If he is trying to prevent the actions or affects the movements of the opponent, what we call it is not relevant in the bigger picture.

Am I alone in that thinking?

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It does look like he threw his body into the defender to shield the pass attempt.

Not sure I would have called anything at first glance, but it appears to be the right call.

Peace

The way I see the replay, he throws the pass and immediately realizes the defender has a clear path. He throws himself into that defender to clog up the path.

Great call from the C.

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

The way I see the replay, he throws the pass and immediately realizes the defender has a clear path. He throws himself into that defender to clog up the path.

Great call from the C.

I think it was a great play. Other terms used would be "crafty" "Cagey" "Grizzled Veteran move".
Foul. Sure. But I bet 9 times out of 10 you'd get away with it.
(I can neither confirm nor deny actually participating in such a manner)

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Judtech

I think it was a great play. Other terms used would be "crafty" "Cagey" "Grizzled Veteran move".
Foul. Sure. But I bet 9 times out of 10 you'd get away with it.
(I can neither confirm nor deny actually participating in such a manner)

Agreed on all counts. I drew three fouls one game, as a point guard, by purposefully crossing feet with my defender as we ran down the court. It was too easy.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It does look like he threw his body into the defender to shield the pass attempt.

Not sure I would have called anything at first glance, but it appears to be the right call.

Peace

Agreed and similar to what BNR said, I could do something like this easily and purposely on the court.

I know Jones prides himself on being a play caller and he also emphasizes body contact like he called on this play.

[stiffler3492]

I've got nothing on the Wisconsin play. I see Taylor changing his path, but not to get in the way of Howard. I see him changing paths to pass off to his teammate.

What's the NCAA rule about airborne players?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by stiffler3492

I've got nothing on the Wisconsin play. I see Taylor changing his path, but not to get in the way of Howard. I see him changing paths to pass off to his teammate.

What's the NCAA rule about airborne players?

What does it matter "why" he changed is path? By doing so, he illegally impeded the path of his opponent. His intent is irrelevant on this play.

[stiffler3492]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

What does it matter "why" he changed is path? By doing so, he illegally impeded the path of his opponent. His intent is irrelevant on this play.

What about the flipside...how is Howard totally innocent?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by stiffler3492

What about the flipside...how is Howard totally innocent?

Fair question. Howard sees an open player about to receive the ball and starts to head out to guard him. The question is, who gets the rights to the intersection of their paths?

Had the passer continued his dribble, the defender would have been charged, certainly. But he didn't, he passed, and his actions constituted a screen. Look at the results of the play, it's just like any other screen where the screener is late.

[APG]

Another play from the BYU v. Florida game...block/charge play



I'd be banging the hips on this one for a block.

Also I should mention that his play preceded a technical foul by a player for arguing this play.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Whether you consider it a screen isn't relevant. That's what it was. Even if it wasn't his intent, the result was an illegally screened defender.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

What does it matter "why" he changed is path? By doing so, he illegally impeded the path of his opponent. His intent is irrelevant on this play.

Exactly. Whether he intended to or not, the guard cut off the path of a defender without giving time/distance....illegal screen....every time.

Do we pass on a defensive foul where the defender swats the shooter's arm because the defender intended to hit the ball instead?