Incredible mess at end of game

[jackgil]

Chels -

Don't mean to correct you but having refed in NY .... shot clock is 35 seconds and the ball must hit the RIM before shot clock goes off.

[Schmidt MJ]

After reading the responses on this one I'd have to say I agree with Dr.C. If we know there was 40 seconds on the clock when the play began in the backcourt and if the clock was properly stopped for the "inadvertent whistle", then we should be able to see what's on the clock now and determine if there was a 10-sec. violation. Sometimes when its a close game and there is a situation like this and coaches are giving you an ear full, it's easy to get caught up in the heat of the moment and overlook what may very well be an obvious solution. Been there a few times myself.

[Bart Tyson]

I know in NCAA and i think NF both say the 10sec count is on the Official and not the clock. While it does make sense to look at the clock, the rule book says if 40sec on clock and the official counts too slow or too fast according to the clock-this is not correctable.

[Brian Watson]

DRc.and MJ- Even if he/she blew the call, I don’t think I would/should ever ask my partner to change a call from an inadvertent whistle to a violation in this situation. While I think it is very important to get the call right, looking at the clock and doing the math shouldn’t influence the decision. In your example the clock ticked off 13 seconds and you think the inadvertent whistle should be changed to a violation. But...What if the your partner calls 10 seconds and only 9 ticked off the board? Do you ask him to change the violation to an inadvertent whistle? I agree with Bart, trust the call your partner made, all our counts are different. If the ncaa and nf wanted precise counts we would all be carrying stop watches. Although I shouldn’t say that, it might give someone on the rule board a bad idea.

[TGR]

Still have the question and would like an answer = I know that girls basketball in my area does not use the 10 second backcourt count. I'm almost certain this applies to NCAA women too. Why does girls basketball in your area use it?
--TGR

[Brian Watson]

The best answer I have is the national federation has it as a rule, Ohio didn't modify it, so we call 10 seconds.

My guess is because we don't use a shot clock like the NCAA (and apparently some states) we will continue to call 10 seconds until the NF changes the rule. I have had a gut feeling for awhile that the NF will go to a shot clock in the next few years if they can get schools to buy into the cost of new or extra equipment.

[TGR]

Bob,
Thanks for the information. I am a boys' official in NY. We adopted the shot clock a few years back. However, as far as I was aware, girls' have always used the shot clock. So, when I saw Mark's original post, I thought it odd and wanted to get more information.
By the way, the shot clock is great in the game. I think it will be mandatory in the Federation Rules within the next 5-10 years.
Thanks Again,
--TGR

[bob jenkins]

quote:

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Originally posted by TGR on 03-13-2000 04:05 PM
Still have the question and would like an answer = I know that girls basketball in my area does not use the 10 second backcourt count. I'm almost certain this applies to NCAA women too. Why does girls basketball in your area use it?
--TGR

---

Not all areas have a shot clock (in fact, most areas do not have a shot clock for HS). The standard Fed rules are for no shot clock and a 10-second count. A better question (rhetorical) would be "Why does your area not use the Fed rules?) (Rheotrical -- I understand the pros and cons of both sides and am not trying to open up that discussion here again.)

Most places that use the shot clock adopt the NCAA rules -- for women, that means no 10-second violation, but there is closely guarded (holding, only) in the back court. Under Fed, there is a 10-second violation, but no closely-guarded call in the back-court.

Hope that's clear.

[JC]

Be careful, because the 10 second count starts on CONTROL, while the game clock starts when TOUCHED. It is possible that the throw-in was touched but not immediately controlled. In that case, the time off the game clock is not the same as the 10 second count.

[henkeld]

no 10 sec. count in backcourt for girls, and where is the partner support?

[Mark Padgett]

quote:

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Originally posted by henkeld:
no 10 sec. count in backcourt for girls, and where is the partner support?

---

If you're talking about the original post, we do have 10 second backcourt for girls in this state, and I was watching the post play like I was supposed to.

[joepo10]

I find all this disparity very interesting. I am a coach in Rhode Island. Here we have backcourt 10 secs, 30 sec shot clock, and closely guarded - held AND dribbling! This year I saw maybe two of each (I guess we really run and gun in RI).

[walter]

My board has two states it covers. In one, there is a 30 second clock for girls, so no 10 second count, five second closely guarded holding and/or dribbling in frontcourt only. In the other, no shot clock, 10 second count. Closely guarded holding or dribbling frontcourt only.

[[email protected]]

Originally Posted by joepo10

I find all this disparity very interesting. I am a coach in Rhode Island. Here we have backcourt 10 secs, 30 sec shot clock, and closely guarded - held AND dribbling! This year I saw maybe two of each (I guess we really run and gun in RI).

Can you tell me if ncaaw and ncaam use the same size basketball.

[coach41]

Here in Cali the rules are:

Boys - 35 Sec. Shot Clock, 10 sec. backcourt, 5 second count on both the dribble and held ball ONLY in front court

Girls - 30 Sec. Shot Clock, no 10 sec. count, 5 second count on ONLY held balls FULL COURT

The disparity is a little annoying because most officials do both and occassionally we start counting when we don't have to.