How to deal with bad refs

[coach-rec]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

That's the oldest complaint in the book. Every coach I've ever worked sees it that way. It other words, there's very little cedibility to this complaint.

I'm not worried about credibility as my goal is not to get you to side with me. My goal was to get an opinion on the idea which several people gave some pretty good opinions on.

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

You thought it was across the arm, he said it was all ball. Are we supposed to rely solely on your response?

The issue in point here is not that he thought it was ball. It was the comment after to me that "your PG is soft". You can rely on whatever you want in your determination as it's my issue to deal with.

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Just curious, do you have the same two officials for every game? Do they officiate HS games or are they two kids who work for the rec dept.?

We do have the same two officails for 90% of the games except a few times over the past two years where one could not show up. In those cases another ref shows up or one of the league organizers helps out. They are men that ref in other rec leagues for the city as I've seen them refing some of the lower age group games as well. Several people have pointed out that it's tough to get good refs to coach these leagues. In a conversation yesterday I found out that the main ref that doesn't miss games and seems to favor the two teams in question was recommended by those two teams when there were issues finding refs to do it.

[Adam]

Coach, please realize that when you accuse him of favoring teams, you are directly saying he has no integrity. Most officials find that to be a very serious accusation.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Coach, please realize that when you accuse him of favoring teams, you are directly saying he has no integrity. Most officials find that to be a very serious accusation.

+1

I T'd a coach least season for insinuating that I was a cheater. No warning, no stop sign. In fact, I didn't even wait for him to finish his sentence.

[tref]

In addition to what Snaqs shared, coach, you are aware that mere contact does not constitute a foul? We referee the "result of contact" not just blowing the whistle because someone was touched on the arm.

If players dont want to be touched, I generally suggest that they look into table tennis or bowling, etc.

[coach-rec]

Originally Posted by tref

In addition to what Snaqs shared, coach, you are aware that mere contact does not constitute a foul? We referee the "result of contact" not just blowing the whistle because someone was touched on the arm.

If players dont want to be touched, I generally suggest that they look into table tennis or bowling, etc.

Good point and I couldn't agree more. As long as it's called that way on both sides of the floor. I can give numerous examples but as others have pointed out so well there's a lot more that goes into it.

[tref]

Originally Posted by coach-rec

My hope and message in practice is that we should execute well enough so that no other factors, other teams performance included, can affect the outcome.

+1 Talk about good preperation & coaching!

Originally Posted by coach-rec

Good point and I couldn't agree more. As long as it's called that way on both sides of the floor.

Your player gets slapped on the arm while holding the ball prior to dribbling, but doesnt lose the ball or commit a violation because of it. Result = no whistle.

Your opponent in the same sitch, but loses the ball or commits a travel because of it. Result = foul.

Advantage/disadvantage is the name of the game.

Try looking at the result of contact on what appears to be the "same play" to you. By all means, try to post some of the plays in question on here!!

[coach-rec]

Originally Posted by tref

By all means, try to post some of the plays in question on here!!

Would love to but don't have video.

I see your point on result and in a number of cases that plays a role. I can't adequately display what I'm talking about without the video and I do have a different perspective on a few things after the discussion and reading yesterday so it's just something that I have to go back, review, and move forward from there on.

[coach-rec]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Coach, please realize that when you accuse him of favoring teams, you are directly saying he has no integrity. Most officials find that to be a very serious accusation.

I realize that quite well and would hope an official would take it that way. This is why I haven't said it to his face and decided to get some other opinions on it before I made an issue of it.

I appreciate all the feedback I'm getting. In the end we have the championship game Monday against the other "favored" team so we'll see what happens. My hope and message in practice is that we should execute well enough so that no other factors, other teams performance included, can affect the outcome. They're capable so it's ultimately up to them.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by coach-rec

I realize that quite well and would hope an official would take it that way. This is why I haven't said it to his face and decided to get some other opinions on it before I made an issue of it.

I appreciate all the feedback I'm getting. In the end we have the championship game Monday against the other "favored" team so we'll see what happens. My hope and message in practice is that we should execute well enough so that no other factors, other teams performance included, can affect the outcome. They're capable so it's ultimately up to them.

But if your players have heard your message and also heard you say the refs favor the other two teams, which lesson do you think they'll learn?

[tref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

But if your players have heard your message and also heard you say the refs favor the other two teams, which lesson do you think they'll learn?

Depends on if they win or lose

[coach-rec]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

But if your players have heard your message and also heard you say the refs favor the other two teams, which lesson do you think they'll learn?

The assumption there is that I voice the two out loud which I do not. I refer to my anonymity comment above in that I'm able to say more here without the consequences.

My message to the kids is that regardless of what the refs do or do not do they still have to play the game, make the baskets. We lost a game by 6 earlier in the year where they were sure the refs stole it from them and were quite pissed about it. I pointed out that we missed about 10-12 layups that had nothing to do with the refs. They shut up and since then we haven't lost.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by coach-rec

The issue in point here is not that he thought it was ball. It was the comment after to me that "your PG is soft". You can rely on whatever you want in your determination as it's my issue to deal with.

If he's trying to say he thinks your pg should have played through some incidental contact, it makes sense. Either way, this comment is completely unprofessional for an official to make.

That's something I would address with league management.

Honestly, if things are as bad as you suggest, you might want to consider taking your kids to another league (or forming your own league.)

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by coach-rec

I'm not worried about credibility as my goal is not to get you to side with me. My goal was to get an opinion on the idea which several people gave some pretty good opinions on.

Okay. My opinion is you're whining and complaining about the officiating because you see it from a biased standpoint.

And I understand completely why you're not concerned with whether you have any credibility or not.

[Trap]

The reality is most officials are competent hardworking people doing their best. Most parents and coachs are passionate people who are doing the best they can for the kids. Everyone is human and do make mistakes.

My observation, many officials dont want to admit, that there are bad officials and officials have bad days. It is obvious there are bad fans and it seems everyone but them know it.

There are towns I know that hire the same officials ( usually sub varsity ) for all their games. And these officials are well known homers. That is the way it is. I guess its their view - it is the home court advantage.

Also my experience, the younger less formailized the competition, the harder it is to officate and the worse the coaches and fans. I would much rather do a varsity game than a junior high rec game anyday.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Trap

My observation, many officials dont want to admit, that there are bad officials and officials have bad days. It is obvious there are bad fans and it seems everyone but them know it.

Bulogna. I have yet to meet or talk to any official who won't admit there are bad officials.

Originally Posted by Trap

There are towns I know that hire the same officials ( usually sub varsity ) for all their games. And these officials are well known homers. That is the way it is. I guess its their view - it is the home court advantage.

I can't say I've ever talked to one of those guys, but you're calling them cheaters. Do you realize that?