How to deal with bad refs

[wfd21]

We are all one sided and on the take. Go find a Coaches forum

[coach-rec]

Also what about the question of whether refs are supposed to switch sides at halftime or if it's up to them? I just don't know that answer but seem to remember that there's a rule on it.

Pay as I understand it is $30-35 per game where the refs have two to three games twice per week. The officials are certified by the state however they ref at lower levels than what they're ref'ing in this leage.

wfd21 - I can appreciate that you don't want to answer but why would I go to a coach to answer a question that deals directly with a referee, the rules they follow (or are supposed to follow), and how they interpret them? Kinda seems like asking a nun what sex is like if you ask me.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by coach-rec

Also what about the question of whether refs are supposed to switch sides at halftime or if it's up to them? I just don't know that answer but seem to remember that there's a rule on it.
...

This question really doesn't make any sense. An official is either Lead (offensive team's endline) or Trail (near division line). Game action, time-outs, violations, fouls, and transition will cause an official's position to change.

Are you saying in your league an official stays on one half of the court during all the action?

[coach-rec]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

This question really doesn't make any sense. An official is either Lead (offensive team's endline) or Trail (near division line). Game action, time-outs, violations, fouls, and transition will cause an official's position to change.

Are you saying in your league an official stays on one half of the court during all the action?

What I'm saying is that the lead ref, when we're in the offensive zone, switches at halftime so that he's the lead ref in the second half when we're in the offensive zone. When we go to our defensive zone he becomes the trail and it stays this way throughout the game.

The trail, when we're in our offensive zone, never calls anything that he deems to be the lead ref's call and has explained this to me several times however when he becomes the lead ref when we're on our defensive zone he calls those fouls as it's now "his call".

What I'm frustrated with is that we always have the same lead ref when we're in our offensive zone.

And ultimately what I'm trying to get at and seems to have been answered is whether there's a rule about this or if it's discretionary.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by coach-rec

What I'm saying is that the lead ref, when we're in the offensive zone, switches at halftime so that he's the lead ref in the second half when we're in the offensive zone. When we go to our defensive zone he becomes the trail and it stays this way throughout the game.

One way or the other, this should be the least of your concerns. If there truly is a conspiracy against your team, either official could have a negative bearing on the outcome from either end of the court.

[APG]

Officials don't switch at half time. It will depend on your state/area as they may adapt/change the mechanics as prescribed by NFHS. Generally, you'll get switches on fouls in the frontcourt. Usually there won't be in any long switches (officials changing positions on a foul in the backcourt with no free throws). There also may be times where the officials decide to force a switch for whatever reason. Now the fact that this is "rec ball" and not "real ball" means some will take some liberties with switching and my not follow it to a tee.

As far as the level of officials you get, a lot of times, depending on the level you are coaching, means you're not necessarily receiving the best of the best or you are getting a lot of the newer officials which means there will be a lot of mistakes just like there is with the players.

[Nevadaref]

Working for a rec league is not greatly desired by many officials. The pay is generally lousy, the play not so wonderful, and the yelling from the fans/coaches/parents is mostly a pain. So many better officials pass on working these leagues. However, that doesn't mean that your league can't be a positive.

What are the ages of the players in your league?
Are you using refs certified by the state association who work HS games?
You say the pay is $30-35 per game. That's decent for a rec league.
The refs are supposed to switch positions on each foul, but most do not when working a rec league game. Many don't even when working HS games.
It is simply being lazy.

In the end, you get what you pay for as well as who will come to the environment that you create. If it is a negative experience, then expect lower level officials to be the only ones willing to come out.

[coach-rec]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Working for a rec league is not greatly desired by many officials. The pay is generally lousy, the play not so wonderful, and the yelling from the fans/coaches/parents is mostly a pain. So many better officials pass on working these leagues. However, that doesn't mean that your league can't be a positive.

What are the ages of the players in your league?
Are you using refs certified by the state association who work HS games?
You say the pay is $30-35 per game. That's decent for a rec league.
The refs are supposed to switch positions on each foul, but most do not when working a rec league game. Many don't even when working HS games.
It is simply being lazy.

In the end, you get what you pay for as well as who will come to the environment that you create. If it is a negative experience, then expect lower level officials to be the only ones willing to come out.

Thanks for the response.

To answer your questions....

What are the ages of the players in your league? - 15-18
Are you using refs certified by the state association who work HS games? - I'm told yes and they have the association patches that other refs have.

I can't disagree with you on the environment aspect of it because that's true which also probably explains why the ones that will come favor the teams that fit the environment. We beat one of those teams yesterday in a very physical game with a lot of pushing and the opposite team only had 3 fouls at the end of the 2nd half and the fans were still yelling that they were cheated and more fouls should have been called on us.

[Terrapins Fan]

I bet if you filmed the games and had a "certified" official watch the film, he would not see the same things you see.

You are looking at the game from someone who has an investment.

No matter what you believe, I am going to say over 98% of all officials do not care who wins a game. And I don't know any of the maybe 2% who do care, I have never met one who does.

[dave30]

It's REC league. Do you really think an official would take a chance on ruining his credibility by cheating in a REC league? Why would anyone care who wins in a REC league? Referees surely do not.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

I have never met one who does.

Neither have I. Never.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by terrapins fan

i bet if you filmed the games and had a "certified" official watch the film, he would not see the same things you see.

You are looking at the game from someone who has an investment.

No matter what you believe, i am going to say over 98% of all officials do not care who wins a game. And i don't know any of the maybe 2% who do care, i have never met one who does.

+1

[coach-rec]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

I bet if you filmed the games and had a "certified" official watch the film, he would not see the same things you see.

You are looking at the game from someone who has an investment.

No matter what you believe, I am going to say over 98% of all officials do not care who wins a game. And I don't know any of the maybe 2% who do care, I have never met one who does.

I would agree with you in most cases as I stick up for these same refs myself from time to time with the parents and even the kids. My issue is that even the favored teams kids and coaches admit that these refs make up calls and "don't call anything" from time to time when it's discussed outside the environment.

I cannot disagree with you about the investment comment either however I would also say that just because I have an investment doesn't make it an absolute that what I'm saying has no merit.

I would never try and tie this issue to all officials. I'm talking about one rec league and two officials. This does not in any way represent what officials stand for as I respect what they do and agree with the comment somewhere above about when a coach says "you really did right by us" that he should be worried.

[dsqrddgd909]

Originally Posted by coach-rec

I would agree with you in most cases as I stick up for these same refs myself from time to time with the parents and even the kids. My issue is that even the favored teams kids and coaches admit that these refs make up calls and "don't call anything" from time to time when it's discussed outside the environment.

Coach, I don't think you get how serious an accusation this is. Tell me I missed the call, or was in the wrong position or even that I am wrong on a rule. They might all be true.

Don't dare accuse me of favoring one team over another.

I have reffed over 300 games, a good deal of them rec ball. i have NEVER favored one team over another.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by coach-rec

Also what about the question of whether refs are supposed to switch sides at halftime or if it's up to them? I just don't know that answer but seem to remember that there's a rule on it.

I do not even know what you are talking about. There is no rule that says anything like this. Now we have "mechanics" that dictate some movement or positioning, but considering that this is a wreck league, I am sure no regular mechanics are being followed when an official is paid so low and they are probably doing multiple games in one night. Again, you get what you pay for.

Originally Posted by coach-rec

wfd21 - I can appreciate that you don't want to answer but why would I go to a coach to answer a question that deals directly with a referee, the rules they follow (or are supposed to follow), and how they interpret them? Kinda seems like asking a nun what sex is like if you ask me.

If you have not noticed (and appears you have not), you are getting a lot of sarcastic answers. It is not about not wanting to answer your question; there is no way to answer your questions here. For one no one knows what happens on these plays or saw them. I do not know the officials or know why a foul was called in one situation and not called in another situation. Also a slap on the wrist is not a "foul" by rule. That contact might have been minimal or not put the player at a disadvantage. Heck, none of us were there to know for sure.

The best advice is either bring us tape of the plays so that we can see what really took place or go to a coach's forum so all you can complain about how bad officials are all over the place and you will feel better in the end. But at this point and the way you approached this issue here I doubt you are going to get and real answers you seem to be looking for.

Peace