throw-in boundary line violation

[mdray]

first time posting...(I've gained some great insights from the participants here - thanks!)
My question regards question 68 on the refresher exam:
on a designated spot throw in, A1 passes the ball diagonally toward the boundary line. B1 deflects the ball while it is on the OOB side of the line. Answer says the official is correct in assessing a T on B1.
Rule 9-2-11 says the opponent shall not reach through the throw-in plane until the ball has been released on a throw-in pass. The way the question is worded, I take it that the thrower HAS released the ball and therefore the defender can then reach across and deflect the ball. Am I missing something? I'm also wondering how this rule squares with rule 1-2-2, where if there is less than 3 ft of unobstructed space outside any sideline or endline...it says the restraining line marked on the court 3' inside that boundary becomes the boundary line during a throw-in "until the ball crosses the line"...once the thrower-in has released the ball in this sitch, is the restriction off for the defender to contact the ball?

[Stan]

Good question, I'm waiting for the answer from some of the masters.

[ChuckElias]

It has always been my opinion, although no one here shares it, that:

1) the restriction on breaking the throw-in plane ends when the throw-in is released, BUT;

2) the restriction on touching the ball does not end until the ball crosses the boundary line.

These are listed as different violations in the rules, but only the restriction on breaking the throw-in plane is specifically said to end when the ball is released.

Chuck

[mick]

Originally posted by mdray
first time posting...(I've gained some great insights from the participants here - thanks!)
My question regards question 68 on the refresher exam:
on a designated spot throw in, A1 passes the ball diagonally toward the boundary line. B1 deflects the ball while it is on the OOB side of the line. Answer says the official is correct in assessing a T on B1.
Rule 9-2-11 says the opponent shall not reach through the throw-in plane until the ball has been released on a throw-in pass. The way the question is worded, I take it that the thrower HAS released the ball and therefore the defender can then reach across and deflect the ball. Am I missing something? I'm also wondering how this rule squares with rule 1-2-2, where if there is less than 3 ft of unobstructed space outside any sideline or endline...it says the restraining line marked on the court 3' inside that boundary becomes the boundary line during a throw-in "until the ball crosses the line"...once the thrower-in has released the ball in this sitch, is the restriction off for the defender to contact the ball?

mdray,
Welcome!
I agree with you that the ball was released and that there is no violation, no less a T foul.
The effect of the restraining line is only to move the throw-in plane away from the obstructed space; all other related throw-in provisions apply.
mick

[mick]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
It has always been my opinion, although no one here shares it, that:

1) the restriction on breaking the throw-in plane ends when the throw-in is released, BUT;

2) the restriction on touching the ball does not end until the ball crosses the boundary line.

These are listed as different violations in the rules, but only the restriction on breaking the throw-in plane is specifically said to end when the ball is released.

Chuck

Chuck,
Well, certainly the college interpretation is clearer in that:

"The opponents of the thrower-in shall not have any part of their person beyond the vertical inside plane of any boundary line before the ball has crossed that boundary line."

With that rule, the player cannot be there or touch it.
Simple and effective.
mick

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by mick
Well, certainly the college interpretation is clearer

True, but the reason people disagree with me is that I also apply my above-mentioned distinction to HS rules. Seems like nobody agrees with #2 for HS application.

Chuck

[Jeff the Ref]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
It has always been my opinion, although no one here shares it, that:

1) the restriction on breaking the throw-in plane ends when the throw-in is released, BUT;

2) the restriction on touching the ball does not end until the ball crosses the boundary line.

These are listed as different violations in the rules, but only the restriction on breaking the throw-in plane is specifically said to end when the ball is released.

Chuck

Yes...that's my view as well Chuck.

[mick]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

True, but the reason people disagree with me is that I also apply my above-mentioned distinction to HS rules. Seems like nobody agrees with #2 for HS application.

Chuck

However, I'll bet "nobody" is gonna run over to you to change your call, either.

[BigJoe]

mdray,

You are correct in you interpretation of the rules! I had a situation last year that you want to watch for when applying this rule: made basket by B1. Time out team A. Team A allowed to run the baseline. A1 attempts to pass the ball behind the endline to A2 and A3 is racing toward the frontcourt. B2 tries to intercept the pass behind the endline. This is a T because the ball was not released for the throw in. I have never seen this before in 10 years and probably never will again, but if that ever happens to you you will be ready.

[Mark Padgett]

Here's the problem I have always had with the interpretation that once the ball is released toward the court the defender may break the plane but must not touch the ball until it crosses the line:

What other reason would the defender have for breaking the plane if not to touch or grab the ball? If you let him break the plane at that point, aren't you encouraging him to touch the ball?

I think the rule should be either that both are a violation or neither is a violation (or technical). I do agree that if a defender reaches across and hits the ball before it is released, it should be a T.

[APHP]

IAABO'S interpretation of the rule is that you can not reach thru the boundary line plane after the ball is released and touch the ball after it has been released-on the out of bounds side of the throw-in boundry line plane. However, I have several "written" NFHS interpretations that says in NFHS a player can reach thru the line and hit/touch the ball after it has been released by the thrower-even if it has not crossed the boundary lne plane. One place you can find it is in "The Officials Guide: Basketball '99-00--High School & College Rules, Caseplays & Differences". There is a case play that specifically deals with this play. It says that in College it is a violation and in NFHS it is not a violation--to reach thru the boundary line plane and touch/hit the ball after it has been releassd by the thrower. Here in our state it is not a violation. But as someone said, who will know the difference--even officials can't agree on the rulng.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

How about this situation.

After a made shot, A1 has the ball out of bounds and had the endline to run if he wants. A2 steps out of bounds on the other side of the key. A1 throws to A2 (both OOB).

B1 reaches OOB and hits the pass.

Simply OOB off of B1 but now a spot throw-in for Team A? Or a Technical foul?

The same ruling ought to be applied to both situations hadn't it?

What if B1 reaches through the plane and catches the pass? Is it now his ball to shoot or Technical foul against player B1 again?

[mdray]

DownTown -
as I read the rule, it allows the defender to break the plane after the ball has been released "on a throw-in pass"; the passing of the ball between A1 and A2 in your sitch is not a throw-in pass, so I would call the T

[BigJoe]

DownTown,

Please see my situation that I described. Under the rules, if you attempt to pass behind the endline after a made basket, that is not an attempt to throw in the ball. Any touching of the ball by the defender would be a T. On the other hand, if they touch it after B2 attempts the throw-in, it isn't a T. We don't write the rules, just try to interpret and enforce them.

[Hawks Coach]

I have always believed that DTTB's situation with the OOB to OOB endline pass is a T on B. For that reason, I think that NFHS ought to disallow anyone reaching over from IB to OOB to touch the ball - if you are on one side, stay there til the ball gets there. However, reading the rules, I agree that once the ball is released toward the court on a throw in it seems that you can touch the ball on either side of the boundary plane.

This means that you must differentiate between a throw-in and an exchange between two OOB players after a made basket.

How about a last sitaution for fun: after a made basket, A1 takes ball OOB, B1 had fallen OOB after taking lay-up, B1 going back on court as A1 passes along endline to A2, ball hits B1 in the head, bounces onto court where B2 steals ball and makes layup. What do you have?