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Old Wed Feb 16, 2011, 12:12pm
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Thoughts?

Didn't handle a situation very well last night in a state tournament game and would like opinions(please sir may I have another)

I call foul and report, we are shooting two I turn to face basket, players are not getting lined up, fouling team is now starting to huddle near bench behind me(time frame about 2-3 seconds) I turn around and table then tells me five fouls. I tell coach who already knew, and is busy 'coaching' I turn and signal to partners five fouls and tell table to start clock. First horn blows and the R for game starts walking to table telling coach lets go, coach who is not happy to begin with is barking "I get 20 seconds" I tell partner I've got it, they continue the dialogue and now second horn goes off and coach is in my ear that he didn't have time to set up play as other official was 'barking' at him. We administer free throws and coach is still percolating over scenario.

IMO in retrospect, table not buzzing distracted me somewhat. I should have communicated better to partners for fifth foul as they both seemed in the dark which would have prevented R coming to table which was unnecessary. New player had aready reported so we were good there. I"m thinking I could have walked to R and told him, relax, I've got it, although I did repeat I've got it,five fouls. This would have bought coach the few seconds he was looking for. Bottom line, he felt rushed, maybe rightfully so.

It was at critical time in a close game. That said, if coach would have ignored other official( as coaches tend to do when we're yelling let's go, etc.)
he would have had his extra few seconds. To my eye it was sloppy.

Last edited by fullor30; Wed Feb 16, 2011 at 02:20pm.
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Old Wed Feb 16, 2011, 12:16pm
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Did the player report before the 2nd horn? The intent of this rule is not to allow the coach a de facto timeout. It's to speed up the game. He has 20 seconds to get a sub to the table, not to coach his kids.
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Old Wed Feb 16, 2011, 12:22pm
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Originally Posted by fullor30 View Post
Didn't handle a situation very well last night in a state tournamnet game and would like opinions(please sir may I have another)
1) Late in a game, take some more time facing the table to give them time to tell you it's 5 fouls (or, maybe, know it in advance, or, maybe, listen the the PA announcer).

2) When in all this did the sub report? That's when the "time to talk to the team" ends, despite what the coach says about his/her 20 seconds.

3) Be REALLY CLEAR on notifying your partners.

4) Be REALLY CLEAR on notifying your partners.
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Old Wed Feb 16, 2011, 12:22pm
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Originally Posted by fullor30 View Post
Didn't handle a situation very well last night in a state tournamnet game and would like opinions(please sir may I have another)

I call foul and report, we are shooting two I turn to face basket, players are not getting lined up, fouling team is now starting to huddle near bench behind me(time frame about 2-3 seconds) I turn around and table then tells me five fouls. I tell coach who already knew, and is busy 'coaching' I turn and signal to partners five fouls and tell table to start clock. First horn blows and the R for game starts walking to table telling coach lets go, coach who is not happy to begin with is barking "I get 20 seconds" I tell partner I've got it, they continue the dialogue and now second horn goes off and coach is in my ear that he didn't have time to set up play as other official was 'barking' at him. We administer free throws and coach is still percolating over scenario.

IMO in retrospect, table not buzzing distracted me somewhat. I should have communicated better to partners for fifth foul as they both seemed in the dark which would have prevented R coming to table which was unnecessary. New player had aready reported so we were good there. I"m thinking I could have walked to R and told him, relax, I've got it, although I did repeat I've got it,five fouls. This would have bought coach the few seconds he was looking for. Bottom line, he felt rushed, maybe rightfully so.

It was at critical time in a close game. That said, if coach would have ignored other official( as coaches tend to do when we're yelling let's go, etc.)
he would have had his extra few seconds. To my eye it was sloppy.
Live & learn, next time it happens you'll do it BIG! Dont be so quick to leave the table & try to know when a player has 4 is all I would say.

The fact that you analize "how could I have handled that better" the morning after, speak volumes! Congrats on getting the game!!
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Old Wed Feb 16, 2011, 12:32pm
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Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
1) Late in a game, take some more time facing the table to give them time to tell you it's 5 fouls (or, maybe, know it in advance, or, maybe, listen the the PA announcer).

2) When in all this did the sub report? That's when the "time to talk to the team" ends, despite what the coach says about his/her 20 seconds.

3) Be REALLY CLEAR on notifying your partners.

4) Be REALLY CLEAR on notifying your partners.
5) Be REALLY CLEAR on notifying your partners. Guilty as charged. Could have done a better job, The onus is on me to let them know what's happening even if they're on 'break'.

Regarding # 2), good point and I honestly don't recall. I know he was milking it though.

Bob, I've been on the other end and not knowing the situation, I 'stand down' and let table official handle unless I'm beckoned. Thoughts?
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Old Wed Feb 16, 2011, 12:37pm
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Originally Posted by fullor30 View Post
5) Be REALLY CLEAR on notifying your partners. Guilty as charged. Could have done a better job, The onus is on me to let them know what's happening even if they're on 'break'.
Regarding # 2), good point and I honestly don't recall. I know he was milking it though.

Bob, I've been on the other end and not knowing the situation, I 'stand down' and let table official handle unless I'm beckoned. Thoughts?
Who's on break during a dead ball??

If the player is not on the X (not on his way to the X) by the 2nd horn... WHACK!

No PA guy? No player fouls on the board? Where are these guys playing, at the wreck center?
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Old Wed Feb 16, 2011, 12:42pm
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Originally Posted by tref View Post
Who's on break during a dead ball??

If the player is not on the X (not on his way to the X) by the 2nd horn... WHACK!

No PA guy? No player fouls on the board? Where are these guys playing, at the wreck center?
Player was legal, No PA or buzzer and really no indication of fifth foul.

Where's Chseagle when you need him?
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Old Wed Feb 16, 2011, 12:45pm
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Originally Posted by fullor30 View Post
I've been on the other end and not knowing the situation, I 'stand down' and let table official handle unless I'm beckoned. Thoughts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by fullor30 View Post
No PA or buzzer and really no indication of fifth foul.
In that case, "Partner, what do we have?" works well for me. I dont like not knowing whats going on out there.
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Old Wed Feb 16, 2011, 12:46pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fullor30 View Post
Player was legal, No PA or buzzer and really no indication of fifth foul.

Where's Chseagle when you need him?
He was posting here most likely.
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Old Wed Feb 16, 2011, 12:57pm
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Bob, I've been on the other end and not knowing the situation, I 'stand down' and let table official handle unless I'm beckoned. Thoughts?
Usually, that's good advice.

But, if, for example, the sub had already reported (and, heck, maybe even entered) and the administering official didn't see it; or if the official looks lost; or the opposing coach had already complained (perhaps earlier) about the "delay" and I was trying to head off trouble, or ...

Then, I might try to get involved, but the manner in which I did so would depend on the game and my partners.
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Old Wed Feb 16, 2011, 01:03pm
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This is not even something I would agonize over. It sounds like there was some confusion. Communicate and go on. If the coach wants to get upset about what an official told them, that is there problem. I would not care about that at all. Of course you could have communicated better, but I am sure the coach knew the deal and was trying to get an advantage. This is not a critical issue and if the coach wants to explain things to players he should call a timeout.

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Old Wed Feb 16, 2011, 02:06pm
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Perhaps I overlooked it but it wasn't clear to me in the situation whether the partner did or did not know that a DQ had just occurred or whether he was just rushing the coach for some other reason.
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Old Wed Feb 16, 2011, 02:18pm
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Perhaps I overlooked it but it wasn't clear to me in the situation whether the partner did or did not know that a DQ had just occurred or whether he was just rushing the coach for some other reason.
I don't know what he knew, as someone mentioned "partner, what do we have" is the norm before you start telling a coach to break it up. Other partner was in dark too. I didn't communicate enough, coupled with no horn, I can see their confusion somewhat. All easily avoidable. Not a big deal, but bothered me being a state tournament game and I pride myself on game management situations. I can promise you this, it won't happen again.
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Old Wed Feb 16, 2011, 02:19pm
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Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Usually, that's good advice.

But, if, for example, the sub had already reported (and, heck, maybe even entered) and the administering official didn't see it; or if the official looks lost; or the opposing coach had already complained (perhaps earlier) about the "delay" and I was trying to head off trouble, or ...

Then, I might try to get involved, but the manner in which I did so would depend on the game and my partners.
All valid points..............
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Old Wed Feb 16, 2011, 02:22pm
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Fullor30, the bottom line here is that the Coach tried to make his 20 second replacement time into a time-out. I think that's probably why your R came over and interjected himself into the situation. That's not what that time is meant for.
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