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Old Thu Feb 10, 2011, 01:22am
rsl rsl is offline
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backcourt hypothetical

A1 backs across division line while dribbling, and is still dribbling with both feet in frontcourt and ball still in backcourt. Then

1) she passes the ball with both hands to A2 in backcourt

2) in the same motion as her dribble she pushes the ball down and it bounces to A2 in the backcourt

In each case legal or not?
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Old Thu Feb 10, 2011, 02:09am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsl View Post
A1 backs across division line while dribbling, and is still dribbling with both feet in frontcourt and ball still in backcourt. Then

1) she passes the ball with both hands to A2 in backcourt

2) in the same motion as her dribble she pushes the ball down and it bounces to A2 in the backcourt

In each case legal or not?
My understanding of the scenarios you mentioned:

In 1), with both feet in the frontcourt, when she catches the ball with both hands, the dribble is ended, thus she and the ball are in frontcourt. The subsequent pass with both hands to her teammate in the backcourt is a violation.

In 2), she is still in the process of advancing from backcourt to frontcourt, the bat, or push doesn't constitute control in the frontcourt, and the play is legal. (The backcourt 10-second count continues.)

Have you really ever seen a player back across the division line while dribbling?
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Old Thu Feb 10, 2011, 02:16am
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Originally Posted by Rob1968 View Post
My understanding of the scenarios you mentioned:

In 1), with both feet in the frontcourt, when she catches the ball with both hands, the dribble is ended, thus she and the ball are in frontcourt. The subsequent pass with both hands to her teammate in the backcourt is a violation.

In 2), she is still in the process of advancing from backcourt to frontcourt, the bat, or push doesn't constitute control in the frontcourt, and the play is legal. (The backcourt 10-second count continues.)

Have you really ever seen a player back across the division line while dribbling?
Agree, with one small addition. In 1, it is a violation even if the player did not catch the ball. A touch with both hands would end the dribble. Ball would then have frontcourt status.
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Old Thu Feb 10, 2011, 09:20am
rsl rsl is offline
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Originally Posted by Rob1968 View Post
Have you really ever seen a player back across the division line while dribbling?
Not really, hence the hypothetical label.

These questions came from a friend who is a coach after a long discussion about the last touch, first touch rule. I gave the same answer as you, and I think he finally understands the backcourt rules.

One coach down, thousands to go ....
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Old Thu Feb 10, 2011, 11:24am
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Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
Agree, with one small addition. In 1, it is a violation even if the player did not catch the ball. A touch with both hands would end the dribble. Ball would then have frontcourt status.
Thanks for the addition. In my mental image of the play in question, I kinda smoothed through the two-hand touch right to the two-hand catch/control.
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Old Thu Feb 10, 2011, 02:17pm
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Why would it be BC violation in #1. All 3 points weren't across. Both feet in front court but ball whether dribbled or not has not crossed the line therefore still having BC status.
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Old Thu Feb 10, 2011, 02:19pm
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Originally Posted by cmhjordan23 View Post
Why would it be BC violation in #1. All 3 points weren't across. Both feet in front court but ball whether dribbled or not has not crossed the line therefore still having BC status.
Three points only applies to a dribbler. Once A1 touches the ball with 2 hands the dribble is ended and the 3 points rule no longer applies; thus giving the ball FC status by virtue of A1's position on the court.
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Old Thu Feb 10, 2011, 02:20pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmhjordan23 View Post
Why would it be BC violation in #1. All 3 points weren't across. Both feet in front court but ball whether dribbled or not has not crossed the line therefore still having BC status.
By the player putting both hands on the ball, the dribble has ended. The 3 point rule does not apply since we don't have a dribbler. Therefore the ball has the location of the player whom is in the front court.
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Last edited by APG; Thu Feb 10, 2011 at 02:24pm.
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Old Thu Feb 10, 2011, 02:30pm
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Dribbled ended. 1 foot FC, 1 foot BC, still FC status?
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Old Thu Feb 10, 2011, 02:34pm
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Originally Posted by cmhjordan23 View Post
Dribbled ended. 1 foot FC, 1 foot BC, still FC status?
Nope, still BC as the player still has one foot (or anything) touching the BC. Different from the OP, though.
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Old Thu Feb 10, 2011, 02:35pm
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Originally Posted by cmhjordan23 View Post
Dribbled ended. 1 foot FC, 1 foot BC, still FC status?
If a player is touching both the FC and the BC, the player is in the BC.
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Old Thu Feb 10, 2011, 02:38pm
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Rule 4-4 and 4-35 deal with ball location and player location respectively.
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Old Thu Feb 10, 2011, 02:44pm
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Here's a dumb question. When does your foot considered FC status. When it touches the division line or any part of the foot crosses the division line?
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Old Thu Feb 10, 2011, 02:46pm
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Originally Posted by cmhjordan23 View Post
Here's a dumb question. When does your foot considered FC status. When it touches the division line or any part of the foot crosses the division line?
The division line is concered backcourt for both teams.
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Old Thu Feb 10, 2011, 02:48pm
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Cmh, might I suggest reading 4-4 and 4-35? They clearly answer all the questions you have asked. I'd also read the corresponding case book plays in those sections.
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