The Official Forum
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page

The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)
-   Basketball (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/)
-   -   What kind of foul is this? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/62028-what-kind-foul.html)

JRutledge Tue Feb 08, 2011 03:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illini_Ref (Post 727804)
I never lose track of time to the point of forgetting lunch. I have to keep fuel in this well oiled machine!
LOL!!! That is what we call it now. :D

Peace

Raymond Tue Feb 08, 2011 04:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 727785)
A1 is fouled by B1 in the act of shooting. B1 then tells the official that his call is horse-sh**. B1 is charged with a technical foul. As the official nears the reporting area, he hears a crowd reaction and turns around to see A1 clapping in the face of B1. A technical foul is then charged to A1. These technicals are several seconds apart BTW.

How is the penalties assessed in this situation?

I will give my answer or what I think when I get some feedback.

Peace
  1. A1 shoots 2 free throws for personal foul.
  2. Any Team A player(s) shoots 2 free throws for unsporting technical
  3. Any Team B player(s) shoots 2 free throws for unsporting technical
  4. Team B gets throw-in from divsion line

I didn't look at anybody else's responses yet so I'm sure this has already been said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Illini_Ref (Post 727793)
I'll get the discussion on the right track.

What is the definition of "approximately the same time"?
Not this scenario.

bainsey Tue Feb 08, 2011 04:06pm
I have a shooting foul, followed by a false double. The technicals are two separate incidents.

eyezen Tue Feb 08, 2011 04:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 727812)
  1. A1 shoots 2 free throws for personal foul.
  2. Any Team A player(s) shoots 2 free throws for unsporting technical
  3. 3. Any Team B player(s) shoots 2 free throws for unsporting technical
  4. Team B gets throw-in from divsion line

I didn't look at anybody else's responses yet so I'm sure this has already been said.



Not this scenario.
If NFHS this is correct

Smitty Tue Feb 08, 2011 04:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illini_Ref (Post 727803)
But is does make then simultaneous technicals which are simply technicals on each team at "app. the same time".

Enforcement is the same as a double T.
Don't have my books with me, but is what you just said in the book? Because simultaneously does not mean "approximately the same time" - it means "the same time".

JRutledge Tue Feb 08, 2011 04:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 727812)
  1. A1 shoots 2 free throws for personal foul.
  2. Any Team A player(s) shoots 2 free throws for unsporting technical
  3. 3. Any Team B player(s) shoots 2 free throws for unsporting technical
  4. Team B gets throw-in from divsion line
This was my original answer to the letter.

Peace

Illini_Ref Tue Feb 08, 2011 04:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty (Post 727824)
Don't have my books with me, but is what you just said in the book? Because simultaneously does not mean "approximately the same time" - it means "the same time".
NFHS 4-19-10

A simultaneous foul (personal or technical) by opponents is a situation in which there is a foul by both teams which occurs at approximately the same time, but are not committed by opponents against each other.

The penalty for simultaneous fouls includes no FTs and the ball placed at the POI.

Smitty Tue Feb 08, 2011 04:25pm
Fair enough. I stand corrected.

JRutledge Tue Feb 08, 2011 04:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illini_Ref (Post 727832)
NFHS 4-19-10

A simultaneous foul (personal or technical) by opponents is a situation in which there is a foul by both teams which occurs at approximately the same time, but are not committed by opponents against each other.

The penalty for simultaneous fouls includes no FTs and the ball placed at the POI.
Yeah, but simultaneous is usually when we cannot determine which took place first or last. This is not the case here as the officials did not call them at the same time in this play. A1 reacted to the T being given. I cannot see how we can make this simultaneous.

Peace

Illini_Ref Tue Feb 08, 2011 04:29pm
The only difference between a false double foul and a simultaneous foul here is the question of what is "approximately the same time".

Is it one second? Is it three seconds? Is it until the foul is reported?

It is an area that has no answer in the book, and as far as I can tell, no official interpretation from the Federation.

JRutledge Tue Feb 08, 2011 04:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illini_Ref (Post 727835)
The only difference between a false double foul and a simultaneous foul here is the question of what is "approximately the same time".

Is it one second? Is it three seconds? Is it until the foul is reported?

It is an area that has no answer in the book, and as far as I can tell, no official interpretation from the Federation.
I personally think that is reading a lot into the play when from all previous information from the NF that they have always given those as an example of things that happen at the same time. Not we call a foul, then call another foul as a result of the first action. That sounds like a stretch of what the rules says. Maybe they could clarify, but these should like events that happen one after the other.

Just as I said this, HB responded to me. ;)

Peace

Illini_Ref Tue Feb 08, 2011 04:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 727844)
I personally think that is reading a lot into the play when from all previous information from the NF that they have always given those as an example of things that happen at the same time. Not we call a foul, then call another foul as a result of the first action. That sounds like a stretch of what the rules says. Maybe they could clarify, but these should like events that happen one after the other.

Still waiting on HB BTW.

Peace

100% agree.

Maybe an official interp from the Federation would be in order. Or maybe change the rule and always shoot all technicals in the order they occur then go to POI.

eyezen Tue Feb 08, 2011 04:38pm
Can you give us some background on the game?

JRutledge Tue Feb 08, 2011 04:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illini_Ref (Post 727847)
100% agree.

Maybe an official interp from the Federation would be in order. Or maybe change the rule and always shoot all technicals in the order they occur then go to POI.
Check your PM over "there" and I sent you the email response.

Peace

YooperRef Tue Feb 08, 2011 04:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 727812)
  1. A1 shoots 2 free throws for personal foul.
  2. Any Team A player(s) shoots 2 free throws for unsporting technical
  3. 3. Any Team B player(s) shoots 2 free throws for unsporting technical
  4. Team B gets throw-in from divsion line
That's how I would have handled it. False double situation so you penalize in order they occurred. I guess is depends on how you interpret "at approximately the same time".


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:06pm.
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1