Good block?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Well, then maybe we saw the play differently; I thought the block was clean, but the body contact forced the player to fall OOB. If you saw it differently, I'm not going to argue as it was outside my area.

When someone tries to dunk the ball and a defender comes and stops them, they are not going to land perfectly most of the time. The force that made the shooter fall in my opinion had little to do with body contact created by the defender.

Peace

[Welpe]

Out of curiosity...this seems like quite a bit of contact against an airborne shooter. BNR, JRut...are you guys saying that this should be ignored because the shot is blocked?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Out of curiosity...this seems like quite a bit of contact against an airborne shooter. BNR, JRut...are you guys saying that this should be ignored because the shot is blocked?

All contact on an airborne shooter is not illegal. And when a player blocks their shot and stops their momentum when they are airborne, I am not calling a foul just because there is contact. Just like if a player steals the ball and there is contact after the ball is stolen, I am not calling a foul when contact before was legal. Again, read 4-27. If the contact was illegal before the block, different story.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Out of curiosity...this seems like quite a bit of contact against an airborne shooter. BNR, JRut...are you guys saying that this should be ignored because the shot is blocked?

The initial contact is all ball up top. This doesn't absolve the defender of a foul (I would call one if I thought the defender solidly landed on top of the shooter, for example), but I'll let a bit more subsequent contact down below go when the block is that clean up top.

Obviously some people here agree and some disagree -- but in a higher level boys game I feel I'm expected to let that one go.

[Adam]

I agree that more contact is allowed after the shot, but in this particular play I see an airborne shooter solidly knocked to the floor by the contact for which the defender is clearly responsible. Like I said before, though, I may be wrong on this play.

[just another ref]

Question: For any of you who say this is not a foul because, paraphrasing now, it was incidental to the block, the block was clean up top, the ball was already out of play so no disadvantage to the shooter,etc. How do you guys ever have a foul on a shot that goes in?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Question: For any of you who say this is not a foul because, paraphrasing now, it was incidental to the block, the block was clean up top, the ball was already out of play so no disadvantage to the shooter,etc. How do you guys ever have a foul on a shot that goes in?

It has nothing to do with the ball going in the basket. If the shot attempt is altered by the contact, if the player is put at a disadvantage in making the shot attempt, I'll call the foul. I have no problem having an "and one" situation as by the time the ball goes in, I've already decided that there was a foul and I'm calling it.

In this play, it's clean up top and heading out of bounds. They are both affected by the block -- the shooters momentum is changed by that block. Yes, the defender hits him coming down. But I just don't feel it's sever enough at that level to get. Other reasonable voices vary.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

It has nothing to do with the ball going in the basket. If the shot attempt is altered by the contact, if the player is put at a disadvantage in making the shot attempt, I'll call the foul.

You don't think the contact altered the shot in the OP?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Question: For any of you who say this is not a foul because, paraphrasing now, it was incidental to the block, the block was clean up top, the ball was already out of play so no disadvantage to the shooter,etc. How do you guys ever have a foul on a shot that goes in?

Because making a play on the ball first always matters to me. And it does with most officials at that level I observe. Now you do not have to agree and I am not trying to convince anyone here to do what they feel is right. Just like when I watch girl's games and I see officials call all kinds of fouls I do not feel should be. There is less contact on many plays I see and I wonder what the standard should be. It seems to me like the standard is contact with any airborne shooter at any time. When we start calling player control fouls on defenders that are airborne on a regular basis, and then talk to me about why this should be a foul.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by just another ref

You don't think the contact altered the shot in the OP?

The initial contact was all ball on ball -- a good block. By the time the defender's body makes contact, the ball's heading out of bounds.

[just another ref]

Sounds kinda like a description I heard on tv many years ago. As long as you get the ball, (first) you are entitled to take as much of the player as you want while you're at it.



They were describing what constitutes roughing the kicker.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Sounds kinda like a description I heard on tv many years ago. As long as you get the ball, (first) you are entitled to take as much of the player as you want while you're at it.



They were describing what constitutes roughing the kicker.

That is great, but we are not talking about football. And I never said I would never call a foul on a player that is trying to block a ball. There are a lot of block attempts that are going to have a foul call from me. But when a block is made I am going to consider the player the momentum of the shooter and what the contact with that ball did. There are almost always going to contact on blocked shot attempts. Each of us has to determine how much and the level we work is going to dictate that. Just like it dictates other fouls we call or do not call. Not sure why there are some folks thing we all have to agree on these plays.

Peace

[jeffpea]

imho, good block, incidental contact, ball OOB to black...

the two most exciting plays in basketball are the dunk and the block shot. i'm giving a little extra leeway in this instance because of the nature of this play. additionally, if you think about it - we generally allow a little more contact the closer we get to the basket (that's just a reality of how we officiate the game).

i understand if other officials have a foul on this, but I for one, am not blowing my whistle for a foul.

[jeffpea]

btw, after watching the replay again, the official gives no sign of wanting to call a foul....he's just simply moving to get out of the way of the ball.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

.... if you think about it - we generally allow a little more contact the closer we get to the basket

To each his own. If anything, I would probably allow more contact away from the basket when a ball is deflected out of bounds.